FoxHunter

All pilots maintain their position until activated in the new position at any age.

Jetjok

Until the other day that is. Now they can legally be "the pilot" again.

FoxHunter

Check the contract. Section 11, Training

Toccata

That statement is correct, for almost all that go through training. However, the CBA says for those that reach (and reached) the regulated age, that they "...shall be compensated at the pay rate for his new S/O crew status on the date he reaches regulated age." (3.B.2.b.)

So, your "crew status" is a S/O, with corresponding pay, even though you have not been activated (or even accomplished any training). That's simply how it is written. I'm not sure one can technically hold the position of "Captain" with a crew status of S/O. That's not even allowed in the Part 91 world of test flight.

Does the CBA have other wording that voids that statement if a change in the regulated age were to occur (as it did)? I've yet to see it. That is actually why I started this thread, hoping to be presented with some firm and clear CBA language on this issue.

Frankly, I think our CBA is pretty vague about what should happen when the age change occurs, unlike others such as UPS's, which specifically addressed it.

Toccata

No question that a few pilots at airlines with no S/O seats would appreciate and agree with that logic.

MX727

They may only have to voluntarily withdraw from training. There is probably only a handful in training right now and I doubt the company will fight those few.

As far as the activated guys, there may be two classes. Those that bid the back seats and those that were sent because they lost their class I. For those guys, I wouldn't be surprised if they retrain to the left seat under a MED bid. We have had younger guys lose their class I and then come back when they get it.

All speculation, but like the FCIF says wait and see.

Has the Boeing or -10 training letter changed in the last day or two?

Jetjok

Correct, in that (before the other day), when someone reached age 60, and they had told the company that they wanted to continue to work, their pay rate went immediately to the S/O payscale for their year group. However, as was said in an FCIF by the then chief pilot, JL, (and I'm paraphrasing) "you wear the stripes of the seat that you're current in." This to me means that until a guy finishes a formal training program, they wear the stripes that they wore in their "last" position. So a First Officer upgrading to Captain, would wear his 3 stripes until he passes his rating ride, then he'd be entitled to wear the 4 stripes. As well, pay for the new seat would begin at the same time. I believe that the same would apply to a guy who has turned the "regulated age" and is training for a S/O position, with the exception that he'd already be getting paid as a S/O.

Toccata

JJ.....I'm pretty sure at least you and I know what generated that FCIF, and what JL was trying to do. I think if you would ask him, he'd say that "current" in the JL dictionary equates to "crew status" in the CBA.

Historically - and really only speaking for the DC10 - when being promoted to the left seat, you wear the fourth stripe when you're activated in the seat. That would not be after the rating ride, but after actual activation (also when the pay increase happens). So a guy's still wearing three during IOE. Can't legally fly in the left with a normal crew until then.

The individual turning 60 (now 65) and going to the back seat is not defined very well, which is probably why the CBA specified what his new crew status is, and exactly when it happens. He's not activated yet as a S/O, (unless a back seat flex flying as F/O), and not legal as a Captain or F/O crew status. The guy really does not have a crew status. VIPs probably puts dashes in that slot.

On the other hand, getting back to your comments, disciplinary demotions have occurred, and the gent(s) kept wearing the four strips for years.

To me, commons sense and respect for the position should prevail. If I can legally sit in the seat in our 121 operation without a LCA being in the other, I can wear the fourth stripe. If not, I should not wear it. Seems simple enough.

Considerable typing for something not real significant in light of current events. Anyone actually still reading this - sorry about that.

FoxHunter

My VIPS, Activity Display

DEC07

SOF-Bnk Senr Bas Eq Pos Cls Primary-Phone
xxxxxxx 104 MEM 11 CAP PAY

fdxflyer

I am pretty sure that the stripes guys have on will not be precedent for what should happen!