Vacation question
12-04-2007, 03:14 PM
#21
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
I think you used to be able to bid a VTO line and then ask for a regular BLG to be built around your vacation days and not in conflict. Then you get the vacation days pay plus the full BLG. I don't know if the new contract changed that or not.
12-04-2007, 03:23 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A300 Capt.
Posts: 115
Maybe when scheds was upstairs above flt ops
You bid vto and your vacation bank will be deducted.CM
12-04-2007, 05:10 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 281
Dawg: I think you are incorrect. Unused vacation in the previous contract was handled the same way. They will buy back unused vacation hours up to 40% of your total vacation hours at the end of the year. So if you had excess hours in your bank at the end of the year (more than 40%) you would lose those hours.
The only changes to section 7 were to rename the conflict windows and the terminology of VIPs requests to match the new bid processing windows.
The only changes to section 7 were to rename the conflict windows and the terminology of VIPs requests to match the new bid processing windows.
12-04-2007, 06:02 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: FedEx
Posts: 666
I almost hate to post this, but I will go ahead. It is excerpts from an email from a former Boeing ACP famous for his cat/dog emails. I don't think any of these provisions have changed, and I find this review helpful each time I am about to bid for or use the vacation features in VIPS. Maybe it will help some of the newer guys too.
Q: I have 7 days of vacation, how many trips can I knock out with that?
A: Common misperception. Try not to think of your vacation as days, but as CREDIT HOURS (CH). I think that will help you understand what you can do with your vacation. I will come back and answer the second part of the question later in the discussion.
Q: I know that I can slide my vacation and I can expand my vacation. What do those terms mean, and how can I use them?
A: You can slide your vacation up to 5 days in either direction. The slide can knock out an unlimited number of credit hours. Example: You have a 7 day vacation (42:00 CH). Pretend you have a trip worth 83:59 credit hours (stay with me on this). This huge trip is 5 days after the end of your vacation period. You can slide your vacation to just touch the beginning of this 83:59 CH trip and knock out all of it. Ok, lets take it another step. Suppose you have another 7 day vacation later in the year. Because you knocked out 83:59 CH with your first vacation, your vacation bank balance is now 00:01 CH (remember you had two 7 day vacations of 42:00 each for a total of 84:00 CHs. Even though your first vacation period was only 42:00 CHs, if you knock out a big trip the excess credit hours will come out of your vacation bank). So, for your second 7 day vacation you only have 1 minute remaining in your vacation bank balance (see why we talk credit hours vice vacation days?). Can you slide this second vacation to knock out a big trip? Yes, as long as you have any positive balance in your bank, you can do it. Sure, your vacation bank will become a negative value. You can either fly make up vacation (MUV) or not worry about it and use the next year’s bank to cover it.
A: Lets talk expansion. You can expand your vacation either direction an unlimited number of days (have to stay within the bid period) or until you knock out the awarded (current) vacation value plus 6:00 CHs. If you have a 7 day vacation (42 CHs), then you can expand it either direction until you knock out a maximum of 48CHs worth of trips. If the trip value is 1 minute in excess of the vacation CHs plus 6:00 then you will not be able to expand it to cover that trip.
Q: What is the difference between a slide and an expansion?
A: Example: suppose you have a vacation for the first week of June. In April, you bid for a May line which has a carryover trip in June, but you want to fly the carryover trip. When you submit your bid in APRIL, YOU MUST SLIDE your June vacation to the right to avoid the carryover trip. This has to be done two months in advance! Conversely, if you wait until the May 36 hour window (now the conflict/input window) you can still slide your vacation, but not to knock out or avoid a carryover trip. Nor can you expand to knock out a carryover trip. You will probably do a slide to affect C/O and do it two months in advance. You will use expansion for the upcoming bid month to knock out trips (actually you will probably do both).
Q: What are some of the known gotchas?
A: here are a few:
1. You can not leapfrog trips to knock out others.
2. You can not EXPAND to knock out any trip that touches Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Years Eve or New Years Day.
3. There is a 48 hour buffer at both ends of Reserve and Secondary lines, but ONLY Reserve and Secondary lines!
4. You can waive the 48 hour buffer if you had a trip that impacted the buffer and you want to fly it.
5. If you have an international trip it has a 24 hour buffer on the front end and a 48 hour buffer on the back end. These buffers CAN NOT be waived to de-conflict vacation!
6. Vacation buffers never cross bid months.
7. You can SLIDE your vacation into the bid period before it was scheduled to occur (Jul vacation slid into June), but you CAN’T slide it from Jan into Dec or Dec into Nov. You must do this slide 2 months out and you can only do one slide.
If you are trying to get the maximum number of days off, consider bidding a reserve line for the month you have vacation. Each vacation day will knock out a Reserve day at the R-day value. For example, if the Rday value is 4+30, and you have a 7 day vacation (42:00 CHs) you can knock out 9 R days of work. After your vacation knocks out those R days reserve leveling will likely ensure you don’t get called for a few more R days, but that is difficult to predict.
Q: I have 7 days of vacation, how many trips can I knock out with that?
A: Common misperception. Try not to think of your vacation as days, but as CREDIT HOURS (CH). I think that will help you understand what you can do with your vacation. I will come back and answer the second part of the question later in the discussion.
Q: I know that I can slide my vacation and I can expand my vacation. What do those terms mean, and how can I use them?
A: You can slide your vacation up to 5 days in either direction. The slide can knock out an unlimited number of credit hours. Example: You have a 7 day vacation (42:00 CH). Pretend you have a trip worth 83:59 credit hours (stay with me on this). This huge trip is 5 days after the end of your vacation period. You can slide your vacation to just touch the beginning of this 83:59 CH trip and knock out all of it. Ok, lets take it another step. Suppose you have another 7 day vacation later in the year. Because you knocked out 83:59 CH with your first vacation, your vacation bank balance is now 00:01 CH (remember you had two 7 day vacations of 42:00 each for a total of 84:00 CHs. Even though your first vacation period was only 42:00 CHs, if you knock out a big trip the excess credit hours will come out of your vacation bank). So, for your second 7 day vacation you only have 1 minute remaining in your vacation bank balance (see why we talk credit hours vice vacation days?). Can you slide this second vacation to knock out a big trip? Yes, as long as you have any positive balance in your bank, you can do it. Sure, your vacation bank will become a negative value. You can either fly make up vacation (MUV) or not worry about it and use the next year’s bank to cover it.
A: Lets talk expansion. You can expand your vacation either direction an unlimited number of days (have to stay within the bid period) or until you knock out the awarded (current) vacation value plus 6:00 CHs. If you have a 7 day vacation (42 CHs), then you can expand it either direction until you knock out a maximum of 48CHs worth of trips. If the trip value is 1 minute in excess of the vacation CHs plus 6:00 then you will not be able to expand it to cover that trip.
Q: What is the difference between a slide and an expansion?
A: Example: suppose you have a vacation for the first week of June. In April, you bid for a May line which has a carryover trip in June, but you want to fly the carryover trip. When you submit your bid in APRIL, YOU MUST SLIDE your June vacation to the right to avoid the carryover trip. This has to be done two months in advance! Conversely, if you wait until the May 36 hour window (now the conflict/input window) you can still slide your vacation, but not to knock out or avoid a carryover trip. Nor can you expand to knock out a carryover trip. You will probably do a slide to affect C/O and do it two months in advance. You will use expansion for the upcoming bid month to knock out trips (actually you will probably do both).
Q: What are some of the known gotchas?
A: here are a few:
1. You can not leapfrog trips to knock out others.
2. You can not EXPAND to knock out any trip that touches Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Years Eve or New Years Day.
3. There is a 48 hour buffer at both ends of Reserve and Secondary lines, but ONLY Reserve and Secondary lines!
4. You can waive the 48 hour buffer if you had a trip that impacted the buffer and you want to fly it.
5. If you have an international trip it has a 24 hour buffer on the front end and a 48 hour buffer on the back end. These buffers CAN NOT be waived to de-conflict vacation!
6. Vacation buffers never cross bid months.
7. You can SLIDE your vacation into the bid period before it was scheduled to occur (Jul vacation slid into June), but you CAN’T slide it from Jan into Dec or Dec into Nov. You must do this slide 2 months out and you can only do one slide.
If you are trying to get the maximum number of days off, consider bidding a reserve line for the month you have vacation. Each vacation day will knock out a Reserve day at the R-day value. For example, if the Rday value is 4+30, and you have a 7 day vacation (42:00 CHs) you can knock out 9 R days of work. After your vacation knocks out those R days reserve leveling will likely ensure you don’t get called for a few more R days, but that is difficult to predict.
Last edited by Falconjet; 12-05-2007 at 11:30 AM. Reason: fixed typo, thanks Knightflyer
12-05-2007, 04:29 AM
#27
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
"Dawg: I think you are incorrect. Unused vacation in the previous contract was handled the same way. "
You are correct. The case I am talking about is using your vacation and building trips around it with a VTO. Kind of like bidding a 72 hour carryover that does not touch your vacation. You get paid for the vacation and the trip not touchign it. If FH is lurking he can attest to this as he did it many times. As I said, it may have changed..
You are correct. The case I am talking about is using your vacation and building trips around it with a VTO. Kind of like bidding a 72 hour carryover that does not touch your vacation. You get paid for the vacation and the trip not touchign it. If FH is lurking he can attest to this as he did it many times. As I said, it may have changed..
12-05-2007, 05:08 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
VTO lines are handled the same as they were in the FCH, Contract #1, and the present contract in regard to Vacation. Each vacation day pays 6 hours. They build a line around your vacation period after you slide it. If you have 7 days vacation you get 48 hours buffer on both ends so you really have 11 protected days off. If you happen to have enough days to have enough hours (6xX=?) to make BLG you get the whole bid month off.
If you want max pay you should bid all your vacation in one bid month and then bid a VTO for that month. If you have 36 days vacation bid all your vacation in the first 5 week bid month you want. You will have 35 vacation days @ 6 hours per day. Your BLG for that month will be 210 hours leaving 6 hours in your vacation bank to be bought back at the end of the year.
If you want max pay you should bid all your vacation in one bid month and then bid a VTO for that month. If you have 36 days vacation bid all your vacation in the first 5 week bid month you want. You will have 35 vacation days @ 6 hours per day. Your BLG for that month will be 210 hours leaving 6 hours in your vacation bank to be bought back at the end of the year.
12-05-2007, 05:23 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,201
Not sure why ---- great post. This is what the msg boards are all about!
I've been told flying MUV is not smart unless you have a really big vacation planned and absolutely need the hours this year to pull it off. If not, just go in the hole and don't worry about it until your final year --- then you'll have to fly MUV if you're still showing a deficit, or they take the money out of your final paycheck.
Opinions...
How do you do this 2 months out?
(Via the Conflict/Input window after the May bid comes out...correct?)
Opinions...
(Via the Conflict/Input window after the May bid comes out...correct?)
12-05-2007, 05:34 AM
#30
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: FDX Airbus F/O
Posts: 152
I've been told flying MUV is not smart unless you have a really big vacation planned and absolutely need the hours this year to pull it off. If not, just go in the hole and don't worry about it until your final year --- then you'll have to fly MUV if you're still showing a deficit, or they take the money out of your final paycheck.
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