IPA age distribution chart
12-15-2007, 07:48 AM
#51
Thanks for the jumpseat!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: MD-11 galley operator
Posts: 260
Two possibilities: probies become F/Es for LOOOOOOOOONG TIME. or the dreaded F word!
Furloughs.
12-15-2007, 12:43 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Bidding Time Off
Posts: 169
You are not alone, there are many others who have a respectable resume similar to yours.
With respect Lil J, when I interviewed in 1995 (unsuccessfully) and again in 2007, I did not get the same impression...an impression of arrogance. UPS has created a pool and pulls candidates out to fit their hiring needs. For example they pool a bunch of widebody folks to fill widebody first officer positions.
At other airlines, most new hires go to the junior piece of equipment. This junior position traditionally was a F/E position but is evolving into a right seat domestic airplane slot. Since we have no pay differential for equipment at UPS, the company has more flexibility to assign people to where their background is a better fit for the company. Anchorage is our junior base and UPS is generally, but not exclusively, assigning new hires with widebody experience to that base..hence the genesis for having a pool of candidates and its' methodical "pecking order".
Back to the interview, I was treated very well from the moment I stepped in the door. I have interviewed probably 20 diff. times (yes, I don't interview well, but I have meds for this), and it is very common for the applicant to have to pay for his/her own way and hotel.
I just wish I didn't work somewhere, where people tell me this is the worst airline that they have worked at, when they haven't had the pleasure of some of the absolute toilets that are out there.
If you think UPS' managers are arrogant, thieves etc...try the likes of Carl Icahn, Frank Lorenzo, Stephen Wolf, Doug Streeland, the boys at American Airlines (Crandall/Carty/Arpey), Rakesh Gangwall, Johnny Affletranger, Seth Schofield. Imagine working for this clown parade(s) and waking up everyday wondering if today is the day you'll be headed to the unemployment line, if you're pension will be stuffed into some executive's pocket, how much of a paycut will be used for the executive's bonus, watching your CEO drain your airline of it's assets until BK or liquidation preceedings, or watching your airline get sold out from under you or merged into some hell-bent merger where your years of service evaporate.
I don't think unemployment, merger, liquidation, or paycuts are going to be the case at UPS where everyone except the first-year pilots are making a six-digit base salary. I know some senior employees want us new-hires to hate UPS like they do, but fortunately after working at some of the absolute crap holes that we've been at, this is a vacation..trust me.
Lil J, I'm not trying to change your opinion of the company. I would just like to opinionate that as bad as you have experienced it here, you are at one of the better jobs in the business and there are professionals that do the same exact job as you and I, but work under a lot crappyier conditions.
Just my most humble opinion..your mileage may vary.
FF
With respect Lil J, when I interviewed in 1995 (unsuccessfully) and again in 2007, I did not get the same impression...an impression of arrogance. UPS has created a pool and pulls candidates out to fit their hiring needs. For example they pool a bunch of widebody folks to fill widebody first officer positions.
At other airlines, most new hires go to the junior piece of equipment. This junior position traditionally was a F/E position but is evolving into a right seat domestic airplane slot. Since we have no pay differential for equipment at UPS, the company has more flexibility to assign people to where their background is a better fit for the company. Anchorage is our junior base and UPS is generally, but not exclusively, assigning new hires with widebody experience to that base..hence the genesis for having a pool of candidates and its' methodical "pecking order".
Back to the interview, I was treated very well from the moment I stepped in the door. I have interviewed probably 20 diff. times (yes, I don't interview well, but I have meds for this), and it is very common for the applicant to have to pay for his/her own way and hotel.
I just wish I didn't work somewhere, where people tell me this is the worst airline that they have worked at, when they haven't had the pleasure of some of the absolute toilets that are out there.
If you think UPS' managers are arrogant, thieves etc...try the likes of Carl Icahn, Frank Lorenzo, Stephen Wolf, Doug Streeland, the boys at American Airlines (Crandall/Carty/Arpey), Rakesh Gangwall, Johnny Affletranger, Seth Schofield. Imagine working for this clown parade(s) and waking up everyday wondering if today is the day you'll be headed to the unemployment line, if you're pension will be stuffed into some executive's pocket, how much of a paycut will be used for the executive's bonus, watching your CEO drain your airline of it's assets until BK or liquidation preceedings, or watching your airline get sold out from under you or merged into some hell-bent merger where your years of service evaporate.
I don't think unemployment, merger, liquidation, or paycuts are going to be the case at UPS where everyone except the first-year pilots are making a six-digit base salary. I know some senior employees want us new-hires to hate UPS like they do, but fortunately after working at some of the absolute crap holes that we've been at, this is a vacation..trust me.
Lil J, I'm not trying to change your opinion of the company. I would just like to opinionate that as bad as you have experienced it here, you are at one of the better jobs in the business and there are professionals that do the same exact job as you and I, but work under a lot crappyier conditions.
Just my most humble opinion..your mileage may vary.
FF
Fish
12-15-2007, 02:26 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
... I just wish I didn't work somewhere, where people tell me this is the worst airline that they have worked at, when they haven't had the pleasure of some of the absolute toilets that are out there...
... I know some senior employees want us new-hires to hate UPS like they do, but fortunately after working at some of the absolute crap holes that we've been at, this is a vacation..trust me...
... I know some senior employees want us new-hires to hate UPS like they do, but fortunately after working at some of the absolute crap holes that we've been at, this is a vacation..trust me...
I must say I've never flown with anyone (mostly ONT and few SDF crews) who felt that "this was the worst airline they'd worked at" etc. Most will say it took them a while to turn things around but they DID it. Most will also say that there are some typical UPS quirks that takes some time in getting used to but I've never heard anyone say they hate the company.
Maybe California gets too much sun? Beats me...
12-16-2007, 05:08 PM
#55
Trying to arc on the NDB
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Cook
Posts: 93
As to the first one, it looks like most of the probies are in AK. I would be surprised if any of us got displaced to an F/E seat. That would require a down-bid or a displacement, and I don't see that happening. In fact, I think a fair number of folks would bid the F/E if they could get it.
Thoughts?
12-16-2007, 05:33 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
I can see how the second possibility might work out, but it doesn't look too thrilling...
As to the first one, it looks like most of the probies are in AK. I would be surprised if any of us got displaced to an F/E seat. That would require a down-bid or a displacement, and I don't see that happening. In fact, I think a fair number of folks would bid the F/E if they could get it.
Thoughts?
As to the first one, it looks like most of the probies are in AK. I would be surprised if any of us got displaced to an F/E seat. That would require a down-bid or a displacement, and I don't see that happening. In fact, I think a fair number of folks would bid the F/E if they could get it.
Thoughts?
Yes I think people would take F/E if they could get it to prevent commuting to AK. Exactly why no one will take that seat. The only people the ones in the lower 48 have to worry about are the Classic guys......IMO
12-16-2007, 07:26 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Of course, if the 400 goes to SDF or ONT all the bets are off since they'll need a system bid for that meaning all dc8 FEs over 60 will be able to bid it too...
I wonder if the company will try to offer a buyout to the over 60 FEs to save the training costs; I doubt it but who knows? I’m sure if they offered a $500K or so lump sum AND if they let them keep their current medical insurance until 65 many would jump…
Maybe we need to start a new Mutual Aid Plan? (MAP)² ? Mature Airline Pilots fund where junior guys pay-off older guys to retire!
Also, I think I’m gonna start paying for my captains’ dinners from now on – would you like some extra fries sir/ma’m? Please? Don’t forget the extra salt please! Have another Coke, no really it IS good for you, I read about it in the AARP magazine...
(Kiddin’ of course)
12-16-2007, 07:35 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
I did hear that once there are about 15-20 400's in ANC they would start adding them to SDF (never heard ONT). Pure rumor of course
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