bifff15

I think that every day you drop mil on extends your probation accordingly. I haven't read the contract on it but that's how it was explained to me. Anyone have the "in the know scoop"?

floater

Rocco,
I've got to disagree as long as it's a valid Mil Leave. How is that abuse of a system if the crewmember is actually serving his country during that time? If UPS doesn't want folks doing that then they should pay more during first year pay. Otherwise my opinion is that if a guy can get 6 months of mil orders during first year then good on him. Serves UPS right (or any airline for that matter) for paying so little during the first year. And I do believe it extends out his probation a bit but that just means he finishes up his probation on second year pay. His probation may be extended but he'll still get his longevity pay raise.

Floater

UPSFO4LIFE

Hate to tell ya but your probation gets extended while you are on Mil. leave. I believe it also affects your pay as well. May be wrong on that though. So take six months or a year, probation will be waiting for you when you return.

floater

Your probation does get extended possibly. If I remember correctly it got extended if you didn't get a "good month" at UPS, i.e. you didn't work at least 1/2 the pay period. I only had that happen during one month while I was on probation so my probation time got extended a few weeks. However, they can not penalize you pay wise for taking mil leave so your pay still kicks over to the next year's pay on your normal anniversary date. They tried telling me otherwise when it happened for me but the union corrected them on it. I imagine it would be even easier to get it fixed now that we have a military liaison in the union.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Yes and no; the probation does get extended for the time being, let’s say 6 months; however your pay will switch to year 2 pay on the day of your second year anniversary, just as if you’d never left. Basically you'll be on probation for six months with 1st year pay and 6 months with 2nd year pay.

I have hard time understanding how this is abusing the system? People who are in the guard, etc; have to do certain amount of drills every year. So if they combine a bunch of them and take a longer period off while on the first year pay instead of spreading them out throughout the year, is that really bad? I guess I don’t know enough about this subject to understand why someone would think it’s abusing the system?

AFRC

This is how it was explained to me by a member of the military liaison committee:

Essentially, for every day of mil leave taken, probation can be extended one day at the discretion of the company. However, the company is supposed to notify the individual as well as the union if the company decides to take this course of action. What I was also told is that generally this extension occurs when a lengthy absence (i.e. 30 days or more of mil leave) triggers notification to the benefits department for a change in status. The benefits department apparently in turn notifies your assigned ACP, who then notifies you that probation is going to be extended for the specified days.

I could not find these particular details in the contract, which prompted an email on my part to the military liaison committee. That said, I'm not sure where the sole source document for this protocol exists.....

McBoeingBus

Dog, your attempt to do both jobs is honorable. However, at the end you'll just be tired and frustrated with yourself. Most of the legal questions about Mil Leave can be found by a USERRA search. www.roa.org is a good link for most information. Pay can't be held up for Mil Leave. I don't know if any airline has a contract that would be legal if it wouldn't allow your pay based on your date of hire. There is something called the esclator principle. You will rise and fall in seniority based on if you never left. Vacation and probation can be suspended for your Mil Leave. Yea, that kind of blows. My understanding is that the current UPS contract requires you to accrue 1/2 of your month for vacation and probation, 37.5 hours. Back to you working yourself sick. 1/3 of your military and civilian co-workers will say that you are cheating and should be punished, 1/3 will say good job and thanks for whatever reason that you are on mil and 1/3 don't care. As long as you can look at yourself in the mirror and answer the mail if it comes, I'd let that be my guide. Good luck.

Archie Bunker

Av8or,

I'm not privy to the company's opinion on this whole matter, but IMHO I'm sure they aren't real happy when a new-hire takes off for 6 months of military duty. This new-hire probably just finished training, and completed his consolidation. To the company, he's another trained and current pilot that they can't use on the line. He's also a pilot that will require another training event to become current when he returns to UPS.

I'm sure the company understands that our pilots have reserve/guard obligations (weekends/annual 2 week drill, etc), but they probably weren't banking on someone being gone for months at a time....especially when that pilot just joined the company. Just my humble opinion on how the company views this matter.

Slice

As a guy who took 4 years of mil leave from his last job, I can tell you that you continue to accrue seniority and longevity. As far as the new MRB, I don't understand what all the fuss is about. The only difference I've noticed lately is they want a letter or orders from the squadron(never happened until peak). I fax it in, trip dropped. Easy.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

I see your point and I understand where you're coming from. This person did notify the CP and they didn't see any problem with him doing that. He left for 6 months came back to 2nd year pay and was able to keep paying the mortgage on his house without maxing our his credit cards like the rest of us did. Sure his probation is now extended for 6 months but that’s ok when you’re making $100/hour. I’m not saying do it or don’t do it – I’m saying that if someone is about to foreclose on his/her house there might be some other options out there. I look at it as him doing a bunch of drills all at once and now for six months or so he won't be required to drill at all; so in a way scheduling-wise it's a wash - except his pay during the time that is...