UPS New Hire class
12-09-2007, 09:59 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
Rocco,
I've got to disagree as long as it's a valid Mil Leave. How is that abuse of a system if the crewmember is actually serving his country during that time? If UPS doesn't want folks doing that then they should pay more during first year pay. Otherwise my opinion is that if a guy can get 6 months of mil orders during first year then good on him. Serves UPS right (or any airline for that matter) for paying so little during the first year. And I do believe it extends out his probation a bit but that just means he finishes up his probation on second year pay. His probation may be extended but he'll still get his longevity pay raise.
Floater
I've got to disagree as long as it's a valid Mil Leave. How is that abuse of a system if the crewmember is actually serving his country during that time? If UPS doesn't want folks doing that then they should pay more during first year pay. Otherwise my opinion is that if a guy can get 6 months of mil orders during first year then good on him. Serves UPS right (or any airline for that matter) for paying so little during the first year. And I do believe it extends out his probation a bit but that just means he finishes up his probation on second year pay. His probation may be extended but he'll still get his longevity pay raise.
Floater
Are you serious? Was it a surprise to you when you got the job? Did you not know what the pay was when you applied? I am with you on the pay....NO ONE wants to start off working for first year pay at almost any airline. That is just the way it is. I saved for years and no vacation for my family this year. It sucks, but it is what it is. Dropping "Voluntary" military leave so you dont have to deal with first year pay is abusing the system. It hurts everyone. USERRA was established to protect service members from being treated unfairly.
I try my best to not drop any trips and bid according to my reserve obligation. Sometimes I get lucky and dont have to drop anything but sometimes I don't. This is a hot topic and people look at it differently. It is open to interpretation, but I still think if you drop mil leave after you are finished consolidating you are abusing a system. Hurting not just other reservists but the people you fly the line with. Ask yourself how many people drop mil leave the day they start 2nd year pay? Probably none......because it is a pay cut. If an interviewer "could" ask you "do you plan on dropping mil leave during probation?" that you would get the job? I would say NO....but they can't ask that(nor should they be able to).
12-09-2007, 10:07 PM
#102
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: B744, laying down, in the bunk.
Posts: 223
Floater,
Are you serious? Was it a surprise to you when you got the job? Did you not know what the pay was when you applied? I am with you on the pay....NO ONE wants to start off working for first year pay at almost any airline. That is just the way it is. I saved for years and no vacation for my family this year. It sucks, but it is what it is. Dropping "Voluntary" military leave so you dont have to deal with first year pay is abusing the system. It hurts everyone. USERRA was established to protect service members from being treated unfairly.
I try my best to not drop any trips and bid according to my reserve obligation. Sometimes I get lucky and dont have to drop anything but sometimes I don't. This is a hot topic and people look at it differently. It is open to interpretation, but I still think if you drop mil leave after you are finished consolidating you are abusing a system. Hurting not just other reservists but the people you fly the line with. Ask yourself how many people drop mil leave the day they start 2nd year pay? Probably none......because it is a pay cut. If an interviewer "could" ask you "do you plan on dropping mil leave during probation?" that you would get the job? I would say NO....but they can't ask that(nor should they be able to).
Are you serious? Was it a surprise to you when you got the job? Did you not know what the pay was when you applied? I am with you on the pay....NO ONE wants to start off working for first year pay at almost any airline. That is just the way it is. I saved for years and no vacation for my family this year. It sucks, but it is what it is. Dropping "Voluntary" military leave so you dont have to deal with first year pay is abusing the system. It hurts everyone. USERRA was established to protect service members from being treated unfairly.
I try my best to not drop any trips and bid according to my reserve obligation. Sometimes I get lucky and dont have to drop anything but sometimes I don't. This is a hot topic and people look at it differently. It is open to interpretation, but I still think if you drop mil leave after you are finished consolidating you are abusing a system. Hurting not just other reservists but the people you fly the line with. Ask yourself how many people drop mil leave the day they start 2nd year pay? Probably none......because it is a pay cut. If an interviewer "could" ask you "do you plan on dropping mil leave during probation?" that you would get the job? I would say NO....but they can't ask that(nor should they be able to).
Geez, thanks!
12-09-2007, 10:19 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
12-09-2007, 11:25 PM
#104
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: A300 FO
Posts: 34
Floater,
Are you serious? Was it a surprise to you when you got the job? Did you not know what the pay was when you applied? I am with you on the pay....NO ONE wants to start off working for first year pay at almost any airline. That is just the way it is. I saved for years and no vacation for my family this year. It sucks, but it is what it is. Dropping "Voluntary" military leave so you dont have to deal with first year pay is abusing the system. It hurts everyone. USERRA was established to protect service members from being treated unfairly.
I try my best to not drop any trips and bid according to my reserve obligation. Sometimes I get lucky and dont have to drop anything but sometimes I don't. This is a hot topic and people look at it differently. It is open to interpretation, but I still think if you drop mil leave after you are finished consolidating you are abusing a system. Hurting not just other reservists but the people you fly the line with. Ask yourself how many people drop mil leave the day they start 2nd year pay? Probably none......because it is a pay cut. If an interviewer "could" ask you "do you plan on dropping mil leave during probation?" that you would get the job? I would say NO....but they can't ask that(nor should they be able to).
Are you serious? Was it a surprise to you when you got the job? Did you not know what the pay was when you applied? I am with you on the pay....NO ONE wants to start off working for first year pay at almost any airline. That is just the way it is. I saved for years and no vacation for my family this year. It sucks, but it is what it is. Dropping "Voluntary" military leave so you dont have to deal with first year pay is abusing the system. It hurts everyone. USERRA was established to protect service members from being treated unfairly.
I try my best to not drop any trips and bid according to my reserve obligation. Sometimes I get lucky and dont have to drop anything but sometimes I don't. This is a hot topic and people look at it differently. It is open to interpretation, but I still think if you drop mil leave after you are finished consolidating you are abusing a system. Hurting not just other reservists but the people you fly the line with. Ask yourself how many people drop mil leave the day they start 2nd year pay? Probably none......because it is a pay cut. If an interviewer "could" ask you "do you plan on dropping mil leave during probation?" that you would get the job? I would say NO....but they can't ask that(nor should they be able to).
Yes, I am serious. And no, first year pay wasn't a surprise for me at all when I got the job. I knew it was coming and of course I knew what it was. In fact, my Guard job didn't start until I was 6 months into my probation year anyway. And the only mil leave I took my entire probation year was a few weeks for the school I had to attend for the Guard, so I am definitely not one that dropped 6 months of orders on the company. I actually try to deconflict my UTA's even now and if I can't then I try to move reserve days around. I am not advocating guys abusing the system at all, by any stretch. But I think that if a guy takes orders to go overseas for 2 or more months he's not abusing the system. If you think he is then that's your opinion and I'll just have to agree to disagree with you. But I just don't see it as an abuse. It's not like he is just dropping mil orders and then lounging around his house. He is still serving his country and isn't off on vacation every day. Anyway, that's just my opinion and I realize, like you said, that it is a hot topic and many guys feel differently. I personally wouldn't drop orders like that but I can't fault a guy who does...just my $.02.
12-09-2007, 11:42 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
Your case is different with your unit. If that happens there is little you can do about it except what you did. If you have to get qualified then you have to get qualified.
Hot topic...yes. The rules don't discriminate against whom they protect, but there are obviously gray areas....
12-10-2007, 06:12 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 266
The rules are what they are...if folks are abiding by them while defending the country, I guess you'll just have to tough it out in the lounge chair while they tough it out in Iraq or some other fun spot.
B2P
12-10-2007, 06:21 AM
#107
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
12-10-2007, 07:43 AM
#108
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,755
To my surprise (and disbelief) I just heard ONT might see some shrinking, anyone else heard that rumor? It doesn't make sense to me and personally I don't believe it but wasn’t there some kind of 'big fish' meeting in ONT in the last week or so? I hope this rumor is not true, anyone?
Congrats M!
12-10-2007, 10:40 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
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