Flaps50

I haven't heard anyone talk about the chance that bidding the an FDA under the two year deal may lead to 2-4+ years of actually being there if you can't hold another spot in the company later for years to come. So if someone agrees to the 2 year deal and actually stays for 4 are they entitled to the additional benefits of the 3 year option or are you SOL. I bet you are SOL. This LOA is a POS! I hope no one bids any of these spots! That is what we need to get a truly acceptable LOA. Remember that once the spots are filled we have no recourse at all, the company won't give a rats ass about any enhancements! All we will have left are the STVs to be happy with.

Thanks a lot to all the yes voters or should I say (it won't effect me voters)!

DLax85

Yes, you should...because the "yes" voters who claim something else are disingenious.

DLax85

OK, just out of curiousity where would you draw the line?

If they up'd the housing allowance, or increased the weight allowance, unilaterally before the bid closed out would those be sufficient to fly the "bull$hit flag" up the pole?

Just looking for how much it would take.

VR

DLax

DLax85

Spot on......

Meathead

Hat's off to whoever filed the grievance. The issue clearly belongs back at the bargaining table.

Gunter

Micro,

Being persuaded by people with a lot of charisma is hard to resist. But I ask you to resist it if you can. Stay focused on what you think is important and don't lose your way.

IMHO, we are being manipulated. Ever buy a new car? Same thing. This negotiation via FCIF direct to the membership is a very bad precedent. Our accepted fares have been changed and may change again. Domestic solve is another. It is uncertainty at best. You never know when it will change again, and not for the better either.

Ruin our good working relationship? I don't think so. If it is ruined by us asking for the company to do this right, we really don't have a good relationship to begin with. They want to keep us on the negotiation via FCIF at any cost. Threats to ruin our relationship or any other "good" deal we have will continue. We do have more leverage than you think. If it comes down to sitting down for LOA v2.0, so be it. Don't be dissuaded by the work involved. It will be worth it.

By the way, it's not going "hardline" to renegotiate the LOA when it is clearly inadequate. It is merely accepting a failure and getting us back into a healthy working relationship with the company. Not renegotiating the LOA doesn't make it more successful of a document.

If we don't stand up now, it will be very bad for the next round of negotiations. The company will know they can low ball us, stand firm then offer sweeteners before and after a vote to get the productivity they want. If there is never any threat of reduced productivity, why should they offer what is fair??

This, IMHO, is not a good working relationship.

cma2407

And that's the 800 lb. Gorilla in the room nobody's talking about.

Subic is closing. The DC-10 is going the way of the dodo, requiring the reassignment of EVERYBODY in three seat positions. The 727 is drawing down. Age 60 could result in a 3-5 year freeze for everybody. Quite a few of the "nuggets" are in a 3-point stance to bid out of ANC. Yes, we're adding some frames in the next couple of years, but this storm is here now.

Of course, we're assuming the economy doesn't do anything drastic, and oil prices don't drive huge changes. Not exactly a given.

This FDA is a risky bet. You're going to be there a loooong while, and these "improvements" the company's laying out there as bait can all be rescinded with the "submit" button on a single FCIF.

The currency exchange rate makes it plain: this is essentially a de-facto
B Scale. I guess we'll see if the company can find a couple hundred of us that are that fired up about Kung Pao chicken.

pdo bump

wow...very well put.

Dadof6

Still waiting on LOA v4.0 to come out via FCIF on Friday afternoon, in a last-ditch effort to plus-up the FDA bid. Not expecting anything "substantial" to change, however!

DLax85

And God forbid the 727 turned into the DC10 in a few years with a majority of the SOs Age 60+ or Age 65+....then that would mean the company could hire folks directly into MEM based 757 FO slots w/out the risk of having to pay anyone passover pay AND not having to make those slots available via a primary seat bid.

Combine that with the scheduled 727 draw down it could easily lead to little-to-no Mem based narrow body FO primary vacancies, so Nuggets or the most junior who are brave enough to bid CDG or HKG now could be counting time in the FDAs for years.