Message line and useage of STV's
11-07-2007, 10:45 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
You know what the replies to this line of thinking are....
1) It's not so bad, I spent 3 years on the panel. FDA's will be an adventure and you will be an FO. It is an improvement over the past!
2) STV is temporary and only for the junior guy/gal. You are only junior once...
My personal favorite--
3)We got great stuff for what we gave up (Grid penalties, pay raise with bonus, 1 to 3.75 credit, better scope and VEBA)
1) It's not so bad, I spent 3 years on the panel. FDA's will be an adventure and you will be an FO. It is an improvement over the past!
2) STV is temporary and only for the junior guy/gal. You are only junior once...
My personal favorite--
3)We got great stuff for what we gave up (Grid penalties, pay raise with bonus, 1 to 3.75 credit, better scope and VEBA)
Last edited by Gunter; 11-07-2007 at 11:52 AM.
11-07-2007, 10:56 AM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 57
"Management forgets that prior to 9/11 no one wanted the FDX job."
Say again..over. You are weak and unreadable. I may be no one to you but there were those of us with other options that saw FedEx as the best option when everything was taken into account. That being said, I see your original point as very valid..
Say again..over. You are weak and unreadable. I may be no one to you but there were those of us with other options that saw FedEx as the best option when everything was taken into account. That being said, I see your original point as very valid..
Poor choice of words on my part. "Many people wouldnt want the job". I too was one who had several options. But I remember people leaving in the first week of training in '01 when AA called.
11-07-2007, 11:00 AM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 57
If we need to hire to fill the FDAs, me might not get the standard old buddies from the squadron or our last regional airline like we have for the last umpteen years...but we'll fill them.
I work with a handful of folks every month getting ready for Cathay and Emiriates. The Emirates deal is similar in my opinion to what we offer--a chance to join a solid company flying good equipment to interesting destinations with a secure financial future. For now...their package is a better deal for expats...but then again you cannot bid back to MEM from Emirates in 3-4 years. Point is the guy who wants to work for one of those companys abroad would probably consider our company in the mix now too. Fact is sometimes those guys don't look as good "on paper" as our traditional candidates, but I suspect they'll line up for the jobs and a few will get them.
As for our own pool....I know at least 2 and possibly 4 that are saying "no thanks" to HKG if offered. They hope to stay in the pool for later slots--but if they can't they will pass on the FDX job.
I work with a handful of folks every month getting ready for Cathay and Emiriates. The Emirates deal is similar in my opinion to what we offer--a chance to join a solid company flying good equipment to interesting destinations with a secure financial future. For now...their package is a better deal for expats...but then again you cannot bid back to MEM from Emirates in 3-4 years. Point is the guy who wants to work for one of those companys abroad would probably consider our company in the mix now too. Fact is sometimes those guys don't look as good "on paper" as our traditional candidates, but I suspect they'll line up for the jobs and a few will get them.
As for our own pool....I know at least 2 and possibly 4 that are saying "no thanks" to HKG if offered. They hope to stay in the pool for later slots--but if they can't they will pass on the FDX job.
And I say that being one of those military guys, although I do have a problem shutting my mouth at times!
11-07-2007, 11:09 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Actually I think they prefer the guy who will only be here 15-20 years. Less money wasted on pensions, vacations, and sick days. But I don't think those guys want a 4 hour bus ride through Communist China (twice or more) per trip.
11-07-2007, 11:49 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
The deal has worsened for newhires. But it hasn't changed much for those relatively junior and already on the property. There have always been periods when SOs were stuck in the back seat for 2 or 3 years. The recent past was unusually good for newhires.
I say the glass is half full, not half empty. We have a lot of good things that are not going to change for the average person on the property right now. A little STV is not going to kill anyone. Not a single person will be forced to go an FDA. That should be noted. Even though the FDAs are not being filled on the bid, no low seniority SO has to worry about going. But I will not stand for someone saying it's more expensive for the company to fly out a spouse than to offer SIBA. We should all know the facts.
Flame away but I just can't get too upset with what is going on. So the senior guys got most of the spoils in the last contract and the LOA. They are both pretty good for a select portion of the seniority list. o.k. for most others. They both ignore newhire issues. Was I the only one who signed on knowing the pilot group at FedEx treated each other in this manner? Most on the property were expected to pay some dues the first year or two. Some longer. That mentality is alive and well.
On a personal level, I find most crewmembers a pleasure to be around. I like this job. How we do business is another matter.
I think the lessoned being learned by folks hired in the last few years is an important one. Research is extremely important in getting you to the right job AND helping you enjoy that job once you get there.
BTW, by some measures a recession is already here. If we are in recession, it will probably get worse before it gets better. Thankfully, we are somewhat insulated from it here.
Cheers.
Last edited by Gunter; 11-07-2007 at 12:19 PM.
11-08-2007, 03:00 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 221
Most likely, these retired types and their wives have already "lived the adventure" at one overseas location and are looking for domestic stability as they retire ----- not all of course, but most.
As much as we'd like to think otherwise, I agree with the earlier post that prior to 9/11 very few wanted to come here. I didn't know anybody that had FDX, UPS, or SWA in their top 5. Thankfully, I got out after 9/11 and the choice was made for me, FDX was my only option. We'll fill 'em, but I doubt quality people will be beating down the doors to get in if China is the option.
11-08-2007, 04:30 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Spot on. When I got out, it was for stability for my family and to leave all the deployments behind. I wouldn't have even considered FDX if I had a good chance of being shipped off to China for a minimum of three years, especially since everyone else is starting to hire.
As much as we'd like to think otherwise, I agree with the earlier post that prior to 9/11 very few wanted to come here. I didn't know anybody that had FDX, UPS, or SWA in their top 5. Thankfully, I got out after 9/11 and the choice was made for me, FDX was my only option. We'll fill 'em, but I doubt quality people will be beating down the doors to get in if China is the option.
As much as we'd like to think otherwise, I agree with the earlier post that prior to 9/11 very few wanted to come here. I didn't know anybody that had FDX, UPS, or SWA in their top 5. Thankfully, I got out after 9/11 and the choice was made for me, FDX was my only option. We'll fill 'em, but I doubt quality people will be beating down the doors to get in if China is the option.
