turkeydrvr

Saltydog,
If you read my post I state we are not what we want we are what we negotiate. Personally, I think we should hire professional negotiators for contracts. I am not slighting the job the EB did. I think they did good. In fact, I have thanked every one of them I have seen. I am not saying I am unhappy with the current contract either. I did take issue with 767pilot saying he was tired of whining about first year pay. It is tough no matter who you are or where you are from. Maybe I took it a little bit harsher than I should have. I still think first year pay is shameful and can be fixed the next go-around, but as I mentioned before, it is now what it is. I like who I work with. I am extremely proud of guys and gals stepping up to the plate for our deceased, our foundation and for newhire leather jackets. It is important to be part of the solution, not the problem.

SaltyDog

Well, at least I meet your definition of being a part of the solution. Also, I don't completely reject the idea of paid hired guns like the IPA has always done during negotiations. We do hire professional expertise, ie negotiators, Art Luby et al. I don't believe any "professional negotiator" would have done any better. Perhaps even worse. Heresy, I know. I will share a simple explanation though (but not exhaustive )
1. Vital to any negotiation is expertise in the subject matter. Who negotiates whole contracts for commercial airline pilots? I understand the Art Luby's, etc. But a straight ticket of "professional negotiators"?
2. The most convincing negotiations tool is the unity of the membership. Professional negotiators do not bring that credibility, only the members can accomplish this unity.
In that regard, we get what we individually contribute to the team. BTW, I find it pathetic what UPS pays newhires. Ask JM what the company said to them this time around trying to negotiate a better rate for newhires. It is sad, on the flipside, it is a teaching moment on what UPS thinks of their future CPT's.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Well, I agree with you that our first year pay is low but I think your comparison is slightly off. My friend was hired at Cal 3 weeks after I started at big brown and I made almost 6k more than he did during the first year (not including per diem).
Remember that our guarantee is 75 hours times 13, also for a junior guy (they start calling from the bottom of the list and up) there’s lots of JA flying (150% pay) if you’re interested, so you can make a few extra bucks if you are willing to give up some of your time off.

Also, if you go to a Z domicile you’ll get the international pay override ($4.50/hr).

However, the biggest difference is the excellent health insurance we had from day 30 which I think is more important than anything else out there - two weeks later the new contract kicked in and now the insurance kicks in from day 1.

You should never include your per diem into your pay package but for comparison's sake - ours is quite much better there too. That being said I too wish our first year pay was higher however it is what it is.

Luckydawg

Back to the thread.... has anyone heard anything else in regards to the override possibly being extended to the 400. I spoke with RK at the IPA and he thought it would happen soon. That would hasten the building of my igloo if I get bumped off the eight. Oh, I do have a cushion of two people below me. I guess I'll know soon enough.

Salty,

Why don't you slide over so I can receive some top notch care. I'll always remember and I did appreciate the donuts, subs, yogurt, fruit, etc. You did go out of your way to treat us probies on first year pay.

767pilot

according to the IPNN, something will be coming soon on that

Rocco

Nothing....but it would probably get you fired! Pretty sad that you would even think of doing something like this.

CactusCrew

Doesn't matter anyway ... Big Brown turned off the leaky faucet at the source !

Check the latest IPNN update ...



Later, Brown CC

Rocco

Just saw that....

SEGATAKI

Okay let's set the record straight on the leather jacket issue. I worked with Tom Olson and Perrone on the acquisition of leather jackets for UPS crew members. Intially the jackets were to paid for through payroll deduction but we found that having a seperate website for the ordering of the jackets directly with Perrone would be more efficient. And we wanted a standard jacket provided to crew members free of charge!

We agreed with Perrone to contract a specific number of jackets for crew members on the payroll as of September 1, 2006. We realized that it would take time to size, order and issue jackets to 2600 or so UPS pilots. In fact we have nearly 500 pilots that have not ordered jackets. We had no idea exactly how many pilots were gonig to be hired after 9/1/2006. The intent was never to not provide pilots hired after 9/1/2006 with leather jackets.

We wanted to see how long the initial order would take to complete and process, we would deal with issuing jackets to additional crew members hired after 9/1/2006 at a later date. That plan was in effect when I was still on the uniform committee as of the first of the year. If a final decision was made to have pilots hired after 9/1/2006 pay for their leather jackets I was not made aware of that decision. I would hope that UPS would reconsider if a decision was made to have new hires pay for a uniform item. We are all aware of how generous UPS is with providing new hires with all required uniform items........free. I do not think you will find any other US carrier with a uniform policy as generous as the one provided by UPS!

767pilot

It looks like UPS has decided to play politics with it's newest bunch of guys. To tell you the truth, I was prepared to buy my own jacket and I was a bit surprised to find that they were going to pay. The contract speaks to using your allotment to buy a coat in lieu of other items, and now they are saying that the new guys can't even get coats that way. This has gone a long way from just seeing how the first batch goes and then getting more. Labor is apparently involved now and they are going to lose a lot of good will over something really, really, stupid.