UPS talks resume - Part II
12-01-2005, 01:24 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by EDDIEMIKSIS
Remember, my banker likes my "scab" paycheck better than the check you will have to bounce when you are on strike. While you are on strike, I will be getting paid my fat management salary while you starve. In the end, when I retire, I will be able to do everything I dreamed of doing. You will have to depend on medicare.
I don't work at UPS although I can clearly understand the IPA's frustration if you're an example of the management culture at UPS.
For UPS's sake, I honestly hope that you're a 14 year old kid trolling the forum in his mother's basement, could UPS really be as dysfunctional as the drivel that you put out?
12-01-2005, 01:28 PM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by EDDIEMIKSIS
Remember, my banker likes my "scab" paycheck better than the check you will have to bounce when you are on strike. While you are on strike, I will be getting paid my fat management salary while you starve. In the end, when I retire, I will be able to do everything I dreamed of doing. You will have to depend on medicare.
Retirement? Do you think you will ever see it? Good luck keeping your medical to age 60 or whatever it may change to. Even if you do make it to retirement age, you will die shortly thereafter. Your body is going to go through hell as you'll be flying the back side of the clock to FAR limits for the rest of your career. I'm sure your wife will enjoy your retirement package though.
Last edited by Rocket Man; 12-01-2005 at 02:48 PM.
12-01-2005, 01:42 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 757/767
Posts: 1,128
hey guys, eddie is right when we all are on strike he will be collecting his fat pay ck. When his doing that and spending awful lot of time on the road , i'll make sure his wife won't miss him and she can teach me basic writing skills and some other things.
12-01-2005, 01:53 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dysfunctional UPS Pilot Management Structure
LDmax,
Dysfunctional is right. There couldnt be a better word to sum up the relationship that UPS has created between management and the IPA. As I said before, UPS loves to fight with their labor. It's how they breath. It's where they live. In conflict with their labor.
Management oversite EddieReplacmentWorker? Give me a group of pilots...self directed, hard working, professional........and show me how often management of such a group is required.
I too, truly hope you are a 14 year old kid. Although, I wouldn' t be suprised if you were UPS management. Just a little more publicly embarassed.
Dysfunctional is right. There couldnt be a better word to sum up the relationship that UPS has created between management and the IPA. As I said before, UPS loves to fight with their labor. It's how they breath. It's where they live. In conflict with their labor.
Management oversite EddieReplacmentWorker? Give me a group of pilots...self directed, hard working, professional........and show me how often management of such a group is required.
I too, truly hope you are a 14 year old kid. Although, I wouldn' t be suprised if you were UPS management. Just a little more publicly embarassed.
12-01-2005, 06:06 PM
#47
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Window Seat -- Left Side
Posts: 112
Gentlemen and Ladies (if present),
I thought I would opine on the fundamentals of where UPS and FedEx stand in negotiations -- regardless of timeline or duration in the process.
Since both Fedex and UPS are tied up in the NMB, here are some general observations beyond all this machismo rhetoric being spewed across the discussion board:
1. With the current state of the transportation industry -- pax, cargo, cars, etc. -- there is significant political pressure on the NMB to get a deal done WITHOUT releasing ANY party into a 30-day cooling off period that may eventually lead to self-help.
2. As much as I admire the "stones" demonstrated by the IPA for laying down an ultimatum ( a deal by 12/23 or else), it really carries no weight in the process. It would be ILLEGAL to enter into self-help without being released by the NMB. It ain't gonna happen folks.
3. Even if I'm wrong on #2, GWB will never allow FedEx and UPS to actually strike more than about 15 minutes -- think Clinton and AAL. Both entities are too important to the economy for a job action to drastically affect the economy.
4. The rhetoric about MGMT pilots being replacement workers is hypothetically possible, but come on -- only 200 pilots can't get the job done and everyone here knows it. Oh, you may say there will be IPA line crossing scabs, but even if the total number is 400 -- it still can't ge the job done.
5. How many strike votes has the IPA taken to date? Ever here of the "Boy who cried Wolf?". A strike vote doesn't mean shiatz unless you are approaching the end of the 30-day cooling off period and the situation is dire. UPS knows you guys will walk and they won't let that happen. Even if they do, GWB won't let that happen. See the trend here fellas?
6. This entire thread has degraded to the point of a "p---ing contest" and it may make everyone feel better to vent, but it does nothing to change the reality of the situation. Negotiations are long and painful. The NMB makes it worse. The Company will ALWAYS be able to work you over the coals. The general public is blind, dumb, and deaf to your cause. The professional airline pilot and the glory of being such (in the past) will never return.
7. The truth hurts. I wish all pilots the best, but the strength of ALPA and the IPA are nowhere near what you think them to possess. I'm at FredEx and I hate the situation, but it is what it is.
Good Luck to all. Get motivated for peak -- not.
NKA
I thought I would opine on the fundamentals of where UPS and FedEx stand in negotiations -- regardless of timeline or duration in the process.
Since both Fedex and UPS are tied up in the NMB, here are some general observations beyond all this machismo rhetoric being spewed across the discussion board:
1. With the current state of the transportation industry -- pax, cargo, cars, etc. -- there is significant political pressure on the NMB to get a deal done WITHOUT releasing ANY party into a 30-day cooling off period that may eventually lead to self-help.
2. As much as I admire the "stones" demonstrated by the IPA for laying down an ultimatum ( a deal by 12/23 or else), it really carries no weight in the process. It would be ILLEGAL to enter into self-help without being released by the NMB. It ain't gonna happen folks.
3. Even if I'm wrong on #2, GWB will never allow FedEx and UPS to actually strike more than about 15 minutes -- think Clinton and AAL. Both entities are too important to the economy for a job action to drastically affect the economy.
4. The rhetoric about MGMT pilots being replacement workers is hypothetically possible, but come on -- only 200 pilots can't get the job done and everyone here knows it. Oh, you may say there will be IPA line crossing scabs, but even if the total number is 400 -- it still can't ge the job done.
5. How many strike votes has the IPA taken to date? Ever here of the "Boy who cried Wolf?". A strike vote doesn't mean shiatz unless you are approaching the end of the 30-day cooling off period and the situation is dire. UPS knows you guys will walk and they won't let that happen. Even if they do, GWB won't let that happen. See the trend here fellas?
6. This entire thread has degraded to the point of a "p---ing contest" and it may make everyone feel better to vent, but it does nothing to change the reality of the situation. Negotiations are long and painful. The NMB makes it worse. The Company will ALWAYS be able to work you over the coals. The general public is blind, dumb, and deaf to your cause. The professional airline pilot and the glory of being such (in the past) will never return.
7. The truth hurts. I wish all pilots the best, but the strength of ALPA and the IPA are nowhere near what you think them to possess. I'm at FredEx and I hate the situation, but it is what it is.
Good Luck to all. Get motivated for peak -- not.
NKA
12-01-2005, 06:10 PM
#48
APC co-founder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Originally Posted by MAPLeader
Give me a group of pilots...self directed, hard working, professional........and show me how often management of such a group is required.
Imagine the cost savings from having everyone "pulling on the same end of the rope". As someone else on the forum pointed out, managment gets the union they deserve, and vice versa.
12-01-2005, 07:32 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: CA 767
Posts: 402
3. Even if I'm wrong on #2, GWB will never allow FedEx and UPS to actually strike more than about 15 minutes -- think Clinton and AAL. Both entities are too important to the economy for a job action to drastically affect the economy.
I disagree. Do you realize that for the last 80 years of the RLA the PEB has only been used TWICE. Twice in 80 years. I think the NMB is getting tired of UPS arrogant attitude. I think this Jan. we will be released. And UPS will pay on the 21st. day. Remember the Teamsters are only a year an half away. They will be walking with us. And UPS wants to appear strong. What the IPA is asking for is pennies on the dollar.
I disagree. Do you realize that for the last 80 years of the RLA the PEB has only been used TWICE. Twice in 80 years. I think the NMB is getting tired of UPS arrogant attitude. I think this Jan. we will be released. And UPS will pay on the 21st. day. Remember the Teamsters are only a year an half away. They will be walking with us. And UPS wants to appear strong. What the IPA is asking for is pennies on the dollar.
12-02-2005, 06:52 AM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
UPS MGT Replacement Workers
NoKoolAid
Although you opinions are well stated, they are just that, your opinions. Personally, I disagree with what I view as your defeatist attitude on the whole labor situation here at UPS, or at any company, for that matter.
You have to play the cards you have. Any illusions of power that the IPA or ALPA has aren't held by this poster (me). I think that in the middle of all the chest pounding, is the agreement.
However, UPS is a bully. Pure and unadulterated bully. And as we all have in our life, you have to stand up to the bully. Plain and simple. Because if you don't, the bully will only make your life hell. Now and always.
The Eastern strike would have been much much much more effective should the 250-300 pilot not initially crossed the picket line. It was enough to keep a skeleton operation running and give the company management the illusion that they could whether the storm of the strike. They were wrong in the end. Weren't they? It would have been better to shut the whole operation down. Completely. And FORCE management to the table, for better or worse. And at that point, it is force. And if Eastern would have been shutdown correctly, maybe, just maybe, they would be here today.
So the 200 replacement management pilots at UPS cannot do the job. But, they can buy the company time. About two weeks before they time out with 30/7 FAA restrictions. The replacement management pilots at UPS are all part of the labor puzzle of, "all-in", poker. And part of UPS corporate union busting 101 is to make the membership sweat. And after 2 weeks or so, the company is gambling that IPA guys will start to get fidgety and start to cross. And that, if it happens, is when the IPA blinks and UPS wins.
So the 200 replacement management pilots at UPS are very much a part of the union busting formula in playing their part. It's all about applying pressure and making the other side blink. And the pressure goes up exponentially when the strike is actually on. The management pilot replacement workers are precisely that tool.
Make no mistake about it.
Otherwise, your hypothesis' might be correct. Or, they might be wrong. In fighting the bully, you have to go with what is right, regardless of the political climate and what you think the current administration will do. You have to do what is right.
______________________________
HSLD,
Excellent.....EXCELLENT saying. It is the same saying as I was taught in Political Science, "The people will get the government they deserve."
And it works both ways. Government (management), will get the relations (labor), that they create.
I couldn't agree more. As I said, I love the stability of UPS and won't leave because of time in service, the knowledge 5 times previous of knowing what it is like to start over, and the bottom line that UPS has.
But, UPS is psychotic in many ways. They are extreme, EXTREME control freaks. To the point of paranoia. Which they transmit daily through their puppet managers. And each of those managers is on a string with upper management. From the chief pilot (Barnes), on down. And I don't think Rick Barr is in any way immune to Atlanta telling him to jump up and down. And believe me, Rick Barr will do it. They are all puppets on a string. Sorry, its the truth.
To sit down with the pilot managers and have a beer is one thing. Talk about sports and so on. But its never far from your mind that they have sold their soul for their management position. They make a lot of money, but it comes with a big cost.
Nashmd11, I couldn't agree more....we all...collectively....have to stand together against the bully. Not to destroy the bully. We....none of us has the desire to do that. We, the IPA, and Teamsters, and the union that represents the dispatchers, and any other organizations on the property, have to and will stand together.
Its that simple. Because if Atlanta UPS thinks for one second that they can buy time with replacement workers and break a union on their property, they will do it. Sure as the sun rises in the east every day, UPS will do it.
YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)
Although you opinions are well stated, they are just that, your opinions. Personally, I disagree with what I view as your defeatist attitude on the whole labor situation here at UPS, or at any company, for that matter.
You have to play the cards you have. Any illusions of power that the IPA or ALPA has aren't held by this poster (me). I think that in the middle of all the chest pounding, is the agreement.
However, UPS is a bully. Pure and unadulterated bully. And as we all have in our life, you have to stand up to the bully. Plain and simple. Because if you don't, the bully will only make your life hell. Now and always.
The Eastern strike would have been much much much more effective should the 250-300 pilot not initially crossed the picket line. It was enough to keep a skeleton operation running and give the company management the illusion that they could whether the storm of the strike. They were wrong in the end. Weren't they? It would have been better to shut the whole operation down. Completely. And FORCE management to the table, for better or worse. And at that point, it is force. And if Eastern would have been shutdown correctly, maybe, just maybe, they would be here today.
So the 200 replacement management pilots at UPS cannot do the job. But, they can buy the company time. About two weeks before they time out with 30/7 FAA restrictions. The replacement management pilots at UPS are all part of the labor puzzle of, "all-in", poker. And part of UPS corporate union busting 101 is to make the membership sweat. And after 2 weeks or so, the company is gambling that IPA guys will start to get fidgety and start to cross. And that, if it happens, is when the IPA blinks and UPS wins.
So the 200 replacement management pilots at UPS are very much a part of the union busting formula in playing their part. It's all about applying pressure and making the other side blink. And the pressure goes up exponentially when the strike is actually on. The management pilot replacement workers are precisely that tool.
Make no mistake about it.
Otherwise, your hypothesis' might be correct. Or, they might be wrong. In fighting the bully, you have to go with what is right, regardless of the political climate and what you think the current administration will do. You have to do what is right.
______________________________
HSLD,
Excellent.....EXCELLENT saying. It is the same saying as I was taught in Political Science, "The people will get the government they deserve."
And it works both ways. Government (management), will get the relations (labor), that they create.
I couldn't agree more. As I said, I love the stability of UPS and won't leave because of time in service, the knowledge 5 times previous of knowing what it is like to start over, and the bottom line that UPS has.
But, UPS is psychotic in many ways. They are extreme, EXTREME control freaks. To the point of paranoia. Which they transmit daily through their puppet managers. And each of those managers is on a string with upper management. From the chief pilot (Barnes), on down. And I don't think Rick Barr is in any way immune to Atlanta telling him to jump up and down. And believe me, Rick Barr will do it. They are all puppets on a string. Sorry, its the truth.
To sit down with the pilot managers and have a beer is one thing. Talk about sports and so on. But its never far from your mind that they have sold their soul for their management position. They make a lot of money, but it comes with a big cost.
Nashmd11, I couldn't agree more....we all...collectively....have to stand together against the bully. Not to destroy the bully. We....none of us has the desire to do that. We, the IPA, and Teamsters, and the union that represents the dispatchers, and any other organizations on the property, have to and will stand together.
Its that simple. Because if Atlanta UPS thinks for one second that they can buy time with replacement workers and break a union on their property, they will do it. Sure as the sun rises in the east every day, UPS will do it.
YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)
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