BoynamedSue

the ipa seems to like polls and votes- how about putting this age 60 rule out to the dues paying members for a vote and stand by the vote. (not going to happen!)

it's easier to say you are remaining neutral- isn't that what switzerland did?

UPSierra

I agree, and he and the IPA have been careful not to paint themselves into a legal corner. I've studied your President's leadership for nearly two decades, and have marveled at how he has consistently out-maneuvered UPS management through smart, strategic moves. This latest move is brilliant. A good defense is a strong offense.

If you carefully read what I have written, I never once accused anyone of lying. I am just saying the IPA has a vested interest in a certain outcome for their existing membership to expand the scope of their contract while not relinquishing an inch of seniority. They have also positioned themselves well for "plausible deniability" when it comes to explaining why the management guys ended up on the bottom of the list even though their "intentions" were to integrate on DOH.

Wish your President was on our side. He is serving you well.

My management pilot colleagues (who may still be sitting on the fence) hopefully will have an understanding that once they sign the card, they will no longer have a say in any of the outcomes, and most likely may not have an advocate at the table with the arbitrator. Solution: Don't sign a card!!!!!!

767pilot

What arbitrator?

CactusCrew

Don't want to trade even up ... the DO for the IPA pres anymore ... nice EDIT. Gotta remember who butters your bread !

Caught that one ...

Or was I daydreaming again ...

Later, CC

FliFast

Just to throw out an opinion.

I support the due dilligence of bringing the managment pilots on the seniority list. I also support their integration in a slotted fashion. If it is true that each Management pilot does the work of 2 1/2 IPA pilots (was it 2 1/2, 2 or 3 , I don't remember to be honest) then even a DOH intergration may be worth exploring even for a new hire like me. I don't support DOH unless as advertised it will generate hiring/upgrade opportunities with the conversation of 2 1/2 back to 1.

What I did not agree with was the IPA soliciting crew members to submit the names of managers and their phone numbers. I can see how some managment pilots voluntarily gave this information in, but I also conclude some of the phone numbers were gathered without the managment pilot's knowledge. I think this is a privacy issue.

Also I disagree with the wording of the straw poll asking if "you agree" with the IPA using "any means possible" to bring the managment pilots into the fold. Are we talking about breaking kneecaps ??? Running over someone's poodle ?

Just an opinion, my opinion that is. I'm sure this will generate dirty looks and I might have to protect my kneecaps, but just one's man's two cents.

Freightpuppy

LOL! That's funny!

SaltyDog

Look on the UPS website and you will read all the names, email, numbers provided by UPS. Your CMS page has your ACP's contact info. Privacy issue???? It is to capture the newhire flying management pilots that don't necessarily end up on a list but are known by IPA crews to be flying with them. I think fair, and kind of a cleanup like other violations of our contract. It requires the aggrieved to actually file a grievance, here, to report that particular folks are flying with us on flights. I saw this "privacy issue" in the same light, just a clean up to know who is actually flying and check it against the public list UPS displays.
I think fair enough.

Simply put, they are various means to press the issue, easiest is to encourage our flying brethern also working for the same employer, to join us at the IPA. Some had no real choice, were offered the job and not a line job. There are also legal remedies, less pretty and more costly in many ways. Knowing this, I understood the question to mean exactly what it asked. I.e voluntary integration or legal, lawsuit, etc. I voted yes, knowing that it meant we were willing to go the full court of legal remedies to integrate those jobs within the IPA.

FliFast

Hey Salty,

Thanks for the info. I learned something new today.

Had a few questions. When the IPA was asking for phone numbers was it looking for personal (home/cell) numbers ? Thats what I thought. If they were just checking numbers vs. "the public list UPS displays" why didnt they say so. Was it there and I missed it, or was it ambigous. And if the numbers are posted on our website, then why ask for them. This may be ridiculous on my part, but I can't see a union membership person calling a manager on his/her work number with regards to membership.

It would go like this....manager comes back from lunch and asks his secretary for his messages....

"Hey Delores, any messages ?" "Yes sir, one from your wife asking for a divorce and the other was from the union asking you to join."

Ok, I admit that's silly, but thats why I thought the IPA was looking for home numbers. I guess I misread the IPA's intentions.

To expand on the second part. I don't like to give a union a blank check to pursue their goals. I'd like to be informed and have a voice step by step if their actions will advance beyond what seems like a reasonable effort. What constitutes a reasonable effort to integrate the management folks, I really don't know, but if you get 2800 pilots together I'm sure we could come up with some guidelines for our union so as not to give them carte blanche. All of the items you listed above seem like reasonable efforts as opposed to "by any means possible".

That's where I'm coming from and that's why the wording of "any means possible" doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy and I believe that was indicative on the straw poll results.

Again Salty, thanks for your opinion also. Hopefully we can get this group on our list soon and generate some upgrades and hiring.

Regards,

FF

Precontact

They were looking for personal numbers, anyone can get the office number and besdies the IPA wouldn't call a management guy while he's at his desk. I'm glad they did this, we need to get them onboard. Any short-term loss of seniority is trumped by the gains we all will see with them on our seniority list.

SaltyDog

Precontact and FF,
It specifically says why we were collecting info. I won't argue any ambiguity.
"The Association is updating the Management Pilot list to track both management emergency flying and management proficiency flying. Please provide any information you may have, or be able to obtain."
Not all of them are on the UPS lists as readily identifiable as flying supervisors. I have examples but am not posting publicly. Suffice to say, they have titles other than ACP, they have been hired in the last 2 years, and don't have CPT listed along with their name. If you fly with said individual, we, as an association, have the contractual right to track MEF and MPF. UPS provides data, but amazingly, it isn't always complete. We have to do our own verification for contract enforcement. Just like filing a grievance. It is the affected IPA crewmember, who was subject to the violation, filing a grievance for the benefit of the rest of us to call the company to account. That is the root of it. As for contacting supervisors at home, who needs to, we intentionally pass it out publicly in the IPA channels