GEOFFREY

Upper management is about ready to bribe the subordinate officials with a huge pay raise which will kill any desire to join the IPA.

767pilot

I hope you get it....and then rember where you really belong and come on over to the IPA.

FliFast

Showing my newbie knowledge.

But isn't the gripe of the managment types, the working conditions or should I say the overworked conditions AND NOT the pay ???

Just curious..thanks

And yes I do Fly Fast...free drinks end at 830pm.

767pilot

That's my point as well. Take their pay and OUR working conditions! Knowing this company, the managers are going to be pretty dissapointed by the pay anyway. When an IPA guy works as hard as they do, he makes $400,000 a year no matter his longevity (as long as he is a captain). I don't think you'll see UPS offer these guys that much.

SEGATAKI

The proposal or to be more accurate the rumor is only to make flight managers pay the same as a line captain with equal seniority. The flight mangers MIP (management incentive program) would no longer be a part of their total compensation package. It would become strictly, like most major corporations, a management bonus at the end of the year. There will be no huge salary increase for so called mangers. ACP's (Assistant Chief Pilots) and flight supervisors are not really managers. That is a term created by UPS for that particular group for compensation. A true manager has the ability to hire, fire, promote and issue pay increases. The UPS flight supervisors and ACP's do not have that authority. That fact will be pointed out throughout the attempt to include that group of about 183 pilots into the IPA.

Roberto

Would you provide a reference for us that shows these requirements for a true manager?

SEGATAKI

When Mr Dorsey sued UPS for firing him from his flight supervisor position for trying to organize flight supervisors, several years ago. The circuit court of appeals ruled that flight supervisors were not managers. He won a substantial amount of money from the settlement. The recent IPA video of a labor attorney, Mr Daniel Katz explaining the process of organizing and integrating the 183 so called managers into the IPA does a good job of explaining this entire issue.

UPSierra

1800 RVR, thanks for your candor.

For any UPS management pilot reading this, keep in mind that nothing prevents the IPA from promising DOH integration, then once they have the 35% NMB cards, finding that the company's position to staple you to the bottom of the list is simply "too hard to overcome." I can see it now in the Flight Times, "Dear newly acquired IPA member, sorry to inform you but we were unsuccessful in negotiations. We tried our best."

Then guess what? The IPA gets your job, then maintains their word by integrating you by the "principles of DOH" relative to the other management pilots at the bottom of the list.

Do not expect any IPA support to "fight the good fight" on your behalf. There are a lot of line guys that have full intentions of seeing you junior to them on the seniority list, regardless of their outward signs of sympathy for your plight. This whole IPA plan to take your job is exactly that! Caveat emptor.

Roberto

There are about 150 guys that have been on the seniority list for up to 20 years that the IPA wouldn't help with age 60, so join the club. I see no reason why the IPA would not do the same to the managers if they could. Of course, they would be "neutral," and blame it on the rules <g>.

IPAMD11FO

The straw poll results seem to indicate otherwise, specifically question 2.

"2). Do you support IPA doing whatever is necessary to fight for the integration of these supervisors into the current IPA/UPS seniority list according to their date of hire at UPS?
Yes: 1687 79.0%
No: 438 20.5%
No Response 10 0.5%"

I think you're trying to scare your fellow mgmt pilots.