LakeLivin

I'll be there this Friday! Yum...... Beeeeeeerrr! :

UPSierra

Getting 35% of the management guys to submit cards is fairly unlikely. Most of them understand this is about the IPA wanting their jobs, not vice versa. Many of the more seasoned management guys will never forget when the IPA threw Capt. Dorsey under the bus when a group of management pilots tried to organize. (REF: IPA/Dan Katz letter dated Dec. 14, 1995 to NMB: Case No. C-6583.) The IPA sided with the company, and Capt. Dorsey was fired. If you read the IPA response from that 1995 letter, one has to ask "What has changed since 1995 to bring this up now?" I hope the EB does everyone a favor and leaves this structure alone!

1800 RVR

Not trying to be a smartass, but many on different forums have made reference to this letter, but no one has ever produced it. Where is it? I would like to see for myself what this letter is all about. I tried a search, but came up fruitless. Can you provide a link to this letter? Thanks in advance!

Flyfishing

Let the propaganda begin. Obviously you're UPS management. Probably with low seniority and don't want date of hire integration.

Roberto

Airbum

Doresy was fired illegally and (from what i understand) won a monetary settlement. We should all be so lucky. I havn't read the letter you referenced. In response to what has changed since 1995 alot. The EB feels UPS's role for mgt pilots has changed since say 1990-1995 and is now using them as reserves who fly to the FAR limits without union protection. Hopefully in the future you will get to be part of the IPA.

Roberto

What's to stop UPS from simply raising manager pay as necessary to ensure they don't vote for joining IPA?

1800 RVR

Thanks Roberto. I've heard about this letter. Some go on to say that this letter will effectively kill any effort of the IPA due to precedant. I believe that it will be a hurdle, but one that can be overcome.

The reason I say that is so: We are trying to get the jobs, not necessarily the people. The people will come with the jobs, but the objective is to bring the sought-after positions under the umbrella of the contract. This letter didn't address that. Things change over time. Just look at ALPA. They brought CAL pilots back into the fold that were scabs. (Sidenote: I think they only did this for money's sake i.e. dues, but that is for another thread.)

Do I feel crazy about losing seniority? No. Do I feel crazy about letting FQSO, who were once IPA, back into the fold? No. But do I think that, in the long run, this will be beneficial to us? Yes. There are no guarantees in this business, and this definitely falls into that category.

Sorry for the thread hijack!

1800 RVR

Absolutely nothing. For all we know, the FQSO are just playing the sides off each other to accomplish just that. But maybe, and just maybe, there are enough of them that are getting beat up with their skeds, tired of the politics, and just want some protection. I know, I know - they shouldn't have joined Mngmt. if that's what they wanted. I'm sure many of the newer ones didn't have a choice, and maybe some had no idea what they were in for. Just my 2 bits...

767pilot

Watch the Dan Katz video on the IPA web site. I think it is towards the end when they discuss the letter. It is not the smoking gun these guys seem to feel it is. At the time, we said that we didn't wish to take that flying but we made no guarantees about the future. Since then the complexion of the flying, and the amount flown by the managers has iincreased to the point where we fee; justified in changing our minds.