MD11HOG

You guys are so defensive. Justify it anyway you want. I said 18 hours and you come back with $1 and braces for your kinds. I didn't say I was surprised because I know many of our guys value money over time with their family. Many of their wives would rather them fly extra too. I'm just trying to get a handle how the changes effect us as (here's a foreign concept) a group.

hamfisted

MD11HOG....if you dislike the ways things are normally done "here at Fedex", go work for somebody else. You look down your nose at other pilots who simply work w/i the contract making them analagous to guys who negatively impact your short and long-term QOL. It's the way it is...has been for a long time...and will continue to be. And please don't try to make a connection between my attitude and somebody who would fly a DP; that would be an illegitimate attempt to justify your negative feelings about guys maximizing their pay or QOL. This ain't personal, it's just how it is.

a300fr8dog

Defensive? Why would anyone have to defend an action that is ENTIRELY working within the confines of the CBA? Who do you think you are, that you can tell anyone they cannot attempt to max out their pay? Does being a member of ALPA always lead to this kind of socialist attitude you have?

As JL says: it's a personal choice.

You make your choices, I'll make mine. Neither are right or wrong in this instance.

MD11HOG

Hamfisted, Got it. Flying as much as you want is OK with you. As far as going to work for someone else, is that what you were saying while this kind of activity helped the company not give the pilots a raise for 10 Years?

Albief15

Well, one flip side to a slightly lean operation is in additon to VLT/DFT for those lucky enough/choosing to do it, is we also have some built in elasticity for downturns. Although we all like to say cargo is "recession proof", recession resistant is a better term. Nobody is immune.

Since I've been here, not one pilot has been furloughed. We ***** about this and that, but we've got a good job. Look--I'm an ALPA guy--may even run for rep down the road--but this is a business and it has to make money. When it does--we all win.

I sat on the panel 2.5 years unable to move even to ANC. I got tired of not being able to advance, but I knew to shut my hole as guys here in the 90s spent 5 + years on the panel without options. Right now I'm 100 or so numbers for 727 captain, and I'd LOVE to be able to upgrade. However, I'm not going to tell guys not to work extra so I can get mine.

Not getting a raise for 10 years? That was lack of unity, not greed. Greedy pilots actually help the union duirng negotiations. How? If we run with 90 instead of 100 pilots and still move the freight with a little extra work, but the same token that freight stands still when we don't work extra--like during negotiations. Its a common theme around here that the ANC, SUB, and MEM MD 11 FOs did the lion's share of lifting on the last negotiations. Guys quit working extra, and it had an effect. What would have happened if we were manned at 100% plus during the period? I think the company could have absorbed a slow down with less impact, and continue to stall/delay if they choose to do so.

So--its not a manning thing--its a discipline thing--during negotiations.

Now--what happens if we run at 110%, and the bean counters get a wild hair, and furlough even one pilot? Our contract is pretty clear at that one--BLG goes down, no DFT/VLT, etc.

So--again maybe I'm a bit pollyanna here, but I see the current ops system as win/win. FDX gains effeciency of crews. Greedy crews make extra coin--either at straight pay or 150% depending. ALPA gets lots of dues, and since carryover and other perks come with seniority, they can stroke their own old guys and make them happy. And finally--we can buy stupid stuff like motorcycles, boats, or in my case horse farms and sleep at night reasonably sure our paychecks will clear. I gotta room full of guard buddies that had a miserable last 5 years unable to say the same thing.

If they take your mini-snack, I'm upset. If they build pairings the SIG doesn't like, I'm upset. If they put you in a dump of a hotel, I'm upset. If they scale their pay rates too low for you to have an acceptable Q of life on your BLG...that's wrong too. But when a guy wants to work for some extra coin--I say "God Bless him". We all win. Unless, of course, he's senior to me, on my seat, and just got called out for a trip I wanted. Then, of course, he's an @ss...but that's a different thread!

Purpledriver

I think we need a new bid, new excess bid, new airplane, new loa, or new contract. We're sitting here talking about guys doing make up etc outside of a critical time (no contract talks). Some, not all, of these guys might be making up time they lost due to military leave. Last time I checked, they should have the right to make it up when they decide. Let's argue about something good....like old men that don't know when it's time to retire.

Albief15

How about underwear on chicks? I'd like to go on record as being totally against it.

ScumSeeker

MD11HOG
You take a legitimate stance, and the ho's fly out with guns blazing. They use the, "its legal under the CBA", excuse to be ho's. Remember, the last contract was the first contract. Most of the established carriers that have been around have limits. The ho's use our CBA to justify the degradation of our profession. The same one's used the, "it's legal under the CBA", during the entire contract negotiations. The only ones I could really see justifying the extra flying (to their own greedy selves) would be senior wide body Captains. Anyone else that does it is just delaying their upgrade time or a better quality of life line by working their butt off. I don't understand why they don't just go find an extra job or start a business to supplement their income. But, on the good side, they will probably have more health problems and die sooner. This may benefit you towards the end of your career.

hamfisted

Once again Scumseeker you arrive at a rational, well-thought-out position that encourages open discussion and differing points of view. Who died and made you King? If it's in the CBA, and the Union stays neutral on an activity; who do you think you are to play grand master of anybody else's life or livelihood.
As an observation, you don't use this forum to discuss issues or topics; you come on here spewing venom against those who disagree with you. You just became my first "ignore" member of this forum. Have a nice life. You may want to have your BP checked on a regular basis.......

MD11HOG

Like yours telling me to go work somewhere else?

As far as comparing your extra flying to you flying DP's to make a point, I can't do that but I can give you a perfect example. The capt. on DP 405 MEM 11,19 SEP.

Albie, Good point about the buffer extra flying provides. But I respectfully disagree about greedy pilots helping during negotiations. The "its in the contract guys." You are making the false assumtion that they will stop extra flying when in fact they will just do more; at straight pay ,at 150% or in a history lesson 200%.
You said lack of unity slowed negotiations? How did that lack of unity manifest itself? I'don't believe bag tags have that much effect. But as you pointed out, if freight doesn't move stuff gets done at the table. So tight manning can work to our benefit durring negotiations, but not if we don't take advantage of it. And we historically have'nt been able to take advantage of it.
As far as carryover goes, shouldn't that pay 150% if you protect it? Extra work at straight time. Brilliant! as the Guiness beer guys would say.