To HerkDriver: Why I am Out of ALPA
08-17-2007, 08:19 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 137
You won't listen to the outside world telling you that you are losing through snoozing. But you are willing to ignore and shoot the messengers.
You just rang the bell, dude. You are snoozing. That's it!
08-17-2007, 08:21 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Row well and live...
Posts: 494
Stop!!
Please. Just. STOP.
If you want anyone to listen to your opinions on an organization or group--be a part of it. Otherwise, you're just an outsider throwing mud.
Secondly, if you have a problem with the compensation "system"--break down and upgrade from the right seat.
You sometimes make good points Bob, but nobody hears you from the "cheap seats." If you honestly want to have influence around this place...there is a first step. You know what it is...and it's not writing another letter.
08-17-2007, 08:57 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 137
Please. Just. STOP.
If you want anyone to listen to your opinions on an organization or group--be a part of it. Otherwise, you're just an outsider throwing mud.
Secondly, if you have a problem with the compensation "system"--break down and upgrade from the right seat.
You sometimes make good points Bob, but nobody hears you from the "cheap seats." If you honestly want to have influence around this place...there is a first step. You know what it is...and it's not writing another letter.
If you want anyone to listen to your opinions on an organization or group--be a part of it. Otherwise, you're just an outsider throwing mud.
Secondly, if you have a problem with the compensation "system"--break down and upgrade from the right seat.
You sometimes make good points Bob, but nobody hears you from the "cheap seats." If you honestly want to have influence around this place...there is a first step. You know what it is...and it's not writing another letter.
I appreciate your civility but you are not thinking big enough on this. First, I am not trying to make points on this with you. As an ALPA member, the "good points" I made were ignored. There is no possible need for me to be a member to make points. I absolutely have no interest in that at this stage.
Second, this is not a "union" board. This is an open forum to the world. I get feedback on the things I write from all over the place, including a great deal from pilots at other airlines. If you had heard the comment that I heard yesterday from a pilot on a FedEx crewbus regarding line quality on the Airbus, you would know that the word is getting out there.
Please re-read what I have to say on the "compensation system." It has nothing to do with me. I am a happy guy and I have sufficient resources. I do what I want (When you have been on strike for two years and lost 10 years of your airline career, you sometimes make up the difference elsewhere, and that is what I do).
The "system" about which I write refers to the differentials in our salaries and working conditions that create professional "jealosies" and competition among pilots. You may read about this in my article, "Learning to Compete Wisely...." (the link is embedded in another of my posts in this thread).
The mini-articles that I have posted here are being posted in other forums as well so that is part of the equation. The Internet is great for this kind of thing. Whether the locals are interested or not is something that I cannot control and do not really care about. The big picture is what I am interested in.
The idea that someone would not pay attention to good ideas regardless of who they come from is ridiculous to me. Personally, I think some of you are emotional wrecks and helping to destroy the profession, but when you pop up with a good idea, I am all over it. I don't care where a good idea comes from. If it is good, I embrace it.
By the way, show me where I am "throwing mud." I think that I have proposed a solution for every deficiency that I have illuminated.
Bob
Last edited by rjlavender; 08-17-2007 at 09:08 AM.
08-17-2007, 10:34 AM
#25
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
[quote=rjlavender;216639]It gives me no satisfaction, whatsoever, ]
Bobby, it gives me satisfaction that I provide no satisfaction for you. You are a cheap screw that thinks he is just plain smarter than everyone else. You're the kid in grade school who always had his hand up and had the shiny apple for the teacher. The one who's mother came to school to gripe about your A- on the science project that your dad did for you. The one with no friends and a black eye. You call it strategic thinking, I call it delusions of grandeur. Pages of nonsensical B.S. does not make you smart, it makes you boring.
Bobby, it gives me satisfaction that I provide no satisfaction for you. You are a cheap screw that thinks he is just plain smarter than everyone else. You're the kid in grade school who always had his hand up and had the shiny apple for the teacher. The one who's mother came to school to gripe about your A- on the science project that your dad did for you. The one with no friends and a black eye. You call it strategic thinking, I call it delusions of grandeur. Pages of nonsensical B.S. does not make you smart, it makes you boring.
08-17-2007, 10:39 AM
#26
Slainge Var'
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Posts: 1,530
Look who's calling the pig's a$$ pork! Alright Bobbie, why are you not a non-member on dues checkoff? You know, keep tilting the windmills but pay your fair share? Several do this, why not you? (sorry in advance guys, I'm sure this will be a 3 pager full of El Toro Caca)
08-17-2007, 03:34 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Row well and live...
Posts: 494
CMA,
I appreciate your civility but you are not thinking big enough on this. First, I am not trying to make points on this with you. As an ALPA member, the "good points" I made were ignored. There is no possible need for me to be a member to make points. I absolutely have no interest in that at this stage.
By the way, show me where I am "throwing mud." I think that I have proposed a solution for every deficiency that I have illuminated.
Bob
I appreciate your civility but you are not thinking big enough on this. First, I am not trying to make points on this with you. As an ALPA member, the "good points" I made were ignored. There is no possible need for me to be a member to make points. I absolutely have no interest in that at this stage.
By the way, show me where I am "throwing mud." I think that I have proposed a solution for every deficiency that I have illuminated.
Bob
08-17-2007, 05:50 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
[QUOTE=AerisArmis;216750]
Well spoken. Too bad he still does not walk around with a black eye.
It gives me no satisfaction, whatsoever, ]
Bobby, it gives me satisfaction that I provide no satisfaction for you. You are a cheap screw that thinks he is just plain smarter than everyone else. You're the kid in grade school who always had his hand up and had the shiny apple for the teacher. The one who's mother came to school to gripe about your A- on the science project that your dad did for you. The one with no friends and a black eye. You call it strategic thinking, I call it delusions of grandeur. Pages of nonsensical B.S. does not make you smart, it makes you boring.
Bobby, it gives me satisfaction that I provide no satisfaction for you. You are a cheap screw that thinks he is just plain smarter than everyone else. You're the kid in grade school who always had his hand up and had the shiny apple for the teacher. The one who's mother came to school to gripe about your A- on the science project that your dad did for you. The one with no friends and a black eye. You call it strategic thinking, I call it delusions of grandeur. Pages of nonsensical B.S. does not make you smart, it makes you boring.
08-17-2007, 08:14 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 137
Reason #4
ALPA's use of "Agency Shop" deprives it of two important marketing functions that would make it stronger in today's market:
First, it deprives the Association of an internal “economic feedback loop” that would signal to ALPA policy makers the true level of solidarity among members and satisfaction with union services. This, in turn, leaves ALPA with little feel for how many pilots would vigorously participate in a work action. Marketing organizations such as Sears, FedEx, and others rely heavily on economic input from customers in order to gauge their "loyalty." But not ALPA. Thus, ALPA is operating pretty much in the dark whenever it goes to the negotiating table, Wilson polls notwithstanding.
Second, Agency Shop has prevented ALPA from learning to compete effectively with either internal or outside forces. Since 1978 (Deregulation), some airline executives, including Fred Smith, have become masters at competing for customers and for getting the best deals possible for themselves from vendors, creditors, customers, and shareholders. But while these executives were acquiring their competitive skills, ALPA continued to rely on Agency Shop to retain its customers. This is why the ALPA of 2007 looks remarkably similar to the ALPA of 1978. Not much has changed. If Fred Smith continued doing business the old way, he would no longer be in it. Short version: Fred outcompetes the pilots.
One possible reason that the company agreed to the Agency Shop provision is because it knows that a single-product, take-it-or-leave-it attitude weakens the competitor that adopts it (the only people who do not seem to know this are the pilots). Also, some pilots have expressed their suspicions about the fact that the union gained Agency Shop at the same time the company gained a free hand to optimize flying. Perhaps, there is no connection, but if there were, indeed, "real enhancements" in the new contract, why did the union think that it had to keep people from leaving the fold by protecting itself with Agency Shop? At the very least, this does not look good.
When the MEC chairman made reference to the union acting like a "business" some time back, what, exactly, was he talking about? Agency Shop is the farthest thing from acting like a business that one can imagine. In my opinion, Agency Shop has been devastating to the profession and it needs to disavowed at once...not "the next time around."
ALPA's use of "Agency Shop" deprives it of two important marketing functions that would make it stronger in today's market:
First, it deprives the Association of an internal “economic feedback loop” that would signal to ALPA policy makers the true level of solidarity among members and satisfaction with union services. This, in turn, leaves ALPA with little feel for how many pilots would vigorously participate in a work action. Marketing organizations such as Sears, FedEx, and others rely heavily on economic input from customers in order to gauge their "loyalty." But not ALPA. Thus, ALPA is operating pretty much in the dark whenever it goes to the negotiating table, Wilson polls notwithstanding.
Second, Agency Shop has prevented ALPA from learning to compete effectively with either internal or outside forces. Since 1978 (Deregulation), some airline executives, including Fred Smith, have become masters at competing for customers and for getting the best deals possible for themselves from vendors, creditors, customers, and shareholders. But while these executives were acquiring their competitive skills, ALPA continued to rely on Agency Shop to retain its customers. This is why the ALPA of 2007 looks remarkably similar to the ALPA of 1978. Not much has changed. If Fred Smith continued doing business the old way, he would no longer be in it. Short version: Fred outcompetes the pilots.
One possible reason that the company agreed to the Agency Shop provision is because it knows that a single-product, take-it-or-leave-it attitude weakens the competitor that adopts it (the only people who do not seem to know this are the pilots). Also, some pilots have expressed their suspicions about the fact that the union gained Agency Shop at the same time the company gained a free hand to optimize flying. Perhaps, there is no connection, but if there were, indeed, "real enhancements" in the new contract, why did the union think that it had to keep people from leaving the fold by protecting itself with Agency Shop? At the very least, this does not look good.
When the MEC chairman made reference to the union acting like a "business" some time back, what, exactly, was he talking about? Agency Shop is the farthest thing from acting like a business that one can imagine. In my opinion, Agency Shop has been devastating to the profession and it needs to disavowed at once...not "the next time around."
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