New FCIF regarding 1 month STV max.
07-25-2007, 07:20 AM
#71
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
If it walks like a POS, quacks like a POS, it probably is one.
A large majority of our pilots need to re-read Marty Levitts book about union busting, and the stuff on the ALPA website about our pilot history and things to know about negotiating. Handing a particular "deal" to a group that will garner a 51% vote is total BS!! Talk about divide and conquer! And then, BTW, you can change your vote!! I am blown away at all of this cr@p. When is this pilot group going to start thinking like the blue collar workers we really are, instead of the white collar workers we think we are, or were in a previous life?
Most on this board seem to get it. It is frustrating that the rest dont. So it goes.
I feel better now!
A large majority of our pilots need to re-read Marty Levitts book about union busting, and the stuff on the ALPA website about our pilot history and things to know about negotiating. Handing a particular "deal" to a group that will garner a 51% vote is total BS!! Talk about divide and conquer! And then, BTW, you can change your vote!! I am blown away at all of this cr@p. When is this pilot group going to start thinking like the blue collar workers we really are, instead of the white collar workers we think we are, or were in a previous life?
Most on this board seem to get it. It is frustrating that the rest dont. So it goes.
I feel better now!
07-25-2007, 07:43 AM
#72
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Side Crane
Posts: 85
blue
Cut and dry, we are hourly workers.
Short sleeves and a clip on tie do not make you a white collar worker.
We are dealing with white collar workers who do deals for a living...we fly planes for a living. Get them in our plane and watch them flounder...they have us in "their plane" and they are watching us flounder.
07-25-2007, 07:49 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 CA
Posts: 150
This LOA is inadequate and sub-standard. I believe it's anti-family. Can I live in either place on what it offers? Definitely. Can a family of 4? They can, but it will be expensive. I just finished recurrent with an instructor that is thinking about bidding HKG. He's married with 2 school age children. He fiqures it will cost him an extra $6000/month. He's willing to do it. The bottom line is that bidding these FDA's is a personal choice. Just as bidding ANC and LAX are personal choices.
I don't believe this LOA is concessionary. It's a choice. You either pick the current CBA option or the enhanced option. Unfortunately, we don't get the CBA option AND the enhanced items. There IS money on the table that we didn't have before.
When I moved to Subic, I took 90% of my household goods. Looking back on it, I could have done with a lot less. If I were to bid HKG or CDG, I wouldn't be interested in moving my things to either. It's too cumbersome. As a single pilot, I wouldn't waste time and effort moving my household items again. Five hundred pounds shipping IS pathetic. So is the $10,000 seed money. Can I live with it? Yes. Could a family of 4? Maybe. Maybe not.
When Subic was being opened, there were many details that were lacking. The union leadership advised the membership against bidding Subic. That advice was ignored and all 49 slots were filled.
When the postal contract was announced, the union leadership at that time countered the company's offer by attempting to fix all the areas that they believed were concessions in the 1999 contract. I was for the unions counter-offer. I thought it was gutsy. That blew up in our face.
We can debate the contents of this LOA all we want, but it is what it is. I have been very vocal about the lack of adequate compensation in the LOA and my personal desire to vote this LOA down. After becoming less emotional about this and taking a step back I have a new perspective. I think we all need to ask ourselves is, Where do we go if we vote this down?
This LOA is not, and will not be, everything to everyone. Bidding it is your choice. I believe the best course of action is to vote for this LOA, but not to bid it. That way we guarantee the money that is on the table stays and then we'll have the leverage by not bidding either FDA. The company will then have to decide how they'll have to sweeten the deal to make it attractive.
Out of 4800 pilots, they will find enough single pilots and empty nesters to bid it. The only leverage we have, whether we vote yes or no, is to not bid either domicile. If we vote no, we will lose the money and venture off into the unknown. I'd rather have a little more control of the outcome.
07-25-2007, 08:17 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FDX A300 CPT
Posts: 967
that would be ideal...but like i always say this is the FDX crewforce you are talking about...not gonna happen...every slot will be filled reguardless of the outcome....how much do you want to bet if this thing does not pass and the company puts out the bid that most of the SFS guys bid HKG????????????
07-25-2007, 08:20 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
07-25-2007, 08:21 AM
#76
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 99
Bs
No...its the fact that they...
"couldn't pen and ink it...it would take to long to change any wording in the LOA...this is as good as it will get...no leverage...STV will GO WAY SENIOR..."ect, ect.
When these guys retire at 65 they will do great working at a car dealership.
"couldn't pen and ink it...it would take to long to change any wording in the LOA...this is as good as it will get...no leverage...STV will GO WAY SENIOR..."ect, ect.
When these guys retire at 65 they will do great working at a car dealership.
"There is no more water in the well"
"There is no more money for this LOA"
"They will open the FDA without this LOA"
This company has money falling out of it's pockets. The least they can do is offer a package comparable to what the Military does. Never mind Cathay. On another thread BusBoy calculates that one month of Captain's SIBA is valued at over $14,000.
Is anyone else pizzed that the MEC was snowed over by all this BS?
They must all have been making too much Draft money on Out and Backs to ever have to buy a used car!
I say "Thanks to AlbieF15" and some others for bird-dogging some issues here. It obviously had an effect.
IMHO, there is still plenty of room to improve this LOA.
You know, the one that CANNOT be changed?
Last edited by Liftr; 07-25-2007 at 08:31 AM.
07-25-2007, 08:31 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: DC-10 S/O, forever.
Posts: 116
Now there's no way that I'm even eligible for this thing but it still needs to be voted down. The one month STV isn't the main deal, the entire LOA is. A reasonable deal should be something that works for the ENTIRE crew force. Sorry Prezbear Your rationalization doesn't work for everybody. Somewhat akin to saying "I'll only fly this one DP 'cause I really need the money but I'm aginst flying them on principle."
07-25-2007, 08:41 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: unskilled laborer
Posts: 353
This LOA is inadequate and sub-standard. I believe it's anti-family. Can I live in either place on what it offers? Definitely. Can a family of 4? They can, but it will be expensive. I just finished recurrent with an instructor that is thinking about bidding HKG. He's married with 2 school age children. He fiqures it will cost him an extra $6000/month. He's willing to do it. The bottom line is that bidding these FDA's is a personal choice. Just as bidding ANC and LAX are personal choices.
I don't believe this LOA is concessionary. It's a choice. You either pick the current CBA option or the enhanced option. Unfortunately, we don't get the CBA option AND the enhanced items. There IS money on the table that we didn't have before.
When I moved to Subic, I took 90% of my household goods. Looking back on it, I could have done with a lot less. If I were to bid HKG or CDG, I wouldn't be interested in moving my things to either. It's too cumbersome. As a single pilot, I wouldn't waste time and effort moving my household items again. Five hundred pounds shipping IS pathetic. So is the $10,000 seed money. Can I live with it? Yes. Could a family of 4? Maybe. Maybe not.
When Subic was being opened, there were many details that were lacking. The union leadership advised the membership against bidding Subic. That advice was ignored and all 49 slots were filled.
When the postal contract was announced, the union leadership at that time countered the company's offer by attempting to fix all the areas that they believed were concessions in the 1999 contract. I was for the unions counter-offer. I thought it was gutsy. That blew up in our face.
We can debate the contents of this LOA all we want, but it is what it is. I have been very vocal about the lack of adequate compensation in the LOA and my personal desire to vote this LOA down. After becoming less emotional about this and taking a step back I have a new perspective. I think we all need to ask ourselves is, Where do we go if we vote this down?
This LOA is not, and will not be, everything to everyone. Bidding it is your choice. I believe the best course of action is to vote for this LOA, but not to bid it. That way we guarantee the money that is on the table stays and then we'll have the leverage by not bidding either FDA. The company will then have to decide how they'll have to sweeten the deal to make it attractive.
Out of 4800 pilots, they will find enough single pilots and empty nesters to bid it. The only leverage we have, whether we vote yes or no, is to not bid either domicile. If we vote no, we will lose the money and venture off into the unknown. I'd rather have a little more control of the outcome.
I don't believe this LOA is concessionary. It's a choice. You either pick the current CBA option or the enhanced option. Unfortunately, we don't get the CBA option AND the enhanced items. There IS money on the table that we didn't have before.
When I moved to Subic, I took 90% of my household goods. Looking back on it, I could have done with a lot less. If I were to bid HKG or CDG, I wouldn't be interested in moving my things to either. It's too cumbersome. As a single pilot, I wouldn't waste time and effort moving my household items again. Five hundred pounds shipping IS pathetic. So is the $10,000 seed money. Can I live with it? Yes. Could a family of 4? Maybe. Maybe not.
When Subic was being opened, there were many details that were lacking. The union leadership advised the membership against bidding Subic. That advice was ignored and all 49 slots were filled.
When the postal contract was announced, the union leadership at that time countered the company's offer by attempting to fix all the areas that they believed were concessions in the 1999 contract. I was for the unions counter-offer. I thought it was gutsy. That blew up in our face.
We can debate the contents of this LOA all we want, but it is what it is. I have been very vocal about the lack of adequate compensation in the LOA and my personal desire to vote this LOA down. After becoming less emotional about this and taking a step back I have a new perspective. I think we all need to ask ourselves is, Where do we go if we vote this down?
This LOA is not, and will not be, everything to everyone. Bidding it is your choice. I believe the best course of action is to vote for this LOA, but not to bid it. That way we guarantee the money that is on the table stays and then we'll have the leverage by not bidding either FDA. The company will then have to decide how they'll have to sweeten the deal to make it attractive.
Out of 4800 pilots, they will find enough single pilots and empty nesters to bid it. The only leverage we have, whether we vote yes or no, is to not bid either domicile. If we vote no, we will lose the money and venture off into the unknown. I'd rather have a little more control of the outcome.
So then please explain this to me. If it isn't for me and isn't designed to be for me - and it doesn't share the risk AND reward of the new FDA's with me, WHY WOULD I VOTE FOR THE POS!!!!!!!!!!!! The only part for me is STV and I don't see a vacation there. Unpaid days off would be concessionary for me! Tell me prezbear, why would I want to help pay for housing for everyone just to risk STV - 30days or 1??
Bargain a little more collectively and I will play nice!
07-25-2007, 08:43 AM
#80
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
"I don't believe this LOA is concessionary. It's a choice. You either pick the current CBA option or the enhanced option. Unfortunately, we don't get the CBA option AND the enhanced items."
By Gosh.....it is concessionary!! Look what is in the CBA now concerning FDA's, and look how the current option was changed in the LOA. What they took away if you chose the current option (a misnomer, by the way. Am I the only one that sees that?) is most certainly concessionary, a giveback, a ream job! Holy moly!
And, whether or not you would bid it is not really the point. The point is, is it a good deal for the group; not is it a good deal for me (you).
By Gosh.....it is concessionary!! Look what is in the CBA now concerning FDA's, and look how the current option was changed in the LOA. What they took away if you chose the current option (a misnomer, by the way. Am I the only one that sees that?) is most certainly concessionary, a giveback, a ream job! Holy moly!
And, whether or not you would bid it is not really the point. The point is, is it a good deal for the group; not is it a good deal for me (you).
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