Block 11 Rep Letter
07-21-2007, 09:31 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Block 11 Rep Letter
Here it is with my response to him. If it doesn't all fit, I'll post in pieces.
Ladies and Gentlemen of Block 11,
In a few days you will be receiving a ballot to vote on the Foreign Duty Assignment (FDA) Letter of Agreement (LOA). I believe you should vote in favor of this LOA. In addition, based on the e-mails I have received, Block 11 seems to be waking up to the importance of paying attention to union and company issues. That is good. So, I’ll make the following points for your consideration.
Under our current Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) the Company can open both Hong Kong and Charles de Gaulle as Foreign Duty Assignments.
Yes, you're correct. However, if they do it under our current CBA, they're going to have a HELL of a time filling it. If not, those who bid it are doing so with open eyes and deserve what they get.
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There could be more money in the LOA, but there is not, given that we don’t have a lot of leverage in this situation.
We don't have leverage? If we vote this LOA down, the company has three options:
(1) Man these FDAs using SIBA. This is a great deal for the crewforce and a huge expense for the company. But, hey, guess what, we currently fly Europe and South America this way and we make just a little, teensy profit. Right?
(2) Man these FDAs with new hires. Go ahead. They will all become ALPA members thanks to our new CBA, we make more money as a Union in dues and we have more people below us on the seniority roster... If you think the company will truly do this, you're not being honest with yourself or with me.
(3) Sub the work out. Not likely. Doing so in CDG will expose them to French labor courts as RyanAir recently found out. China is recruiting CRJ captains to fly domestically in an attempt to manage their explosive growth. Both their package and Cathay's package are WAY better than this LOA. Good luck to the company recruiting in that environment with a weak hand.
Option (1) is most likely for the short term it this is voted down. After paying SIBA for a while, they will have a vested interest in making a package attractive to us.
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A Foreign Duty Assignment does not and cannot work for every pilot at FedEx. There are plenty of pilots who would not live in Subic Bay because of schooling, health care, climate, crime, distance, etc. But the base is manned, and was established with a less comprehensive benefit package than is before you now.
Less comprehensive package? Are you serious? Expat tax exclusion is yours to keep, cheap housing, strong dollar and weak local economy made moving there financially advantageous for our crewmembers.
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If the pilots bid these bases without the LOA (and I believe they will as shown by past history), what amount of negotiating capital do you believe we will need to expend during the next round of negotiations to secure enhancements to an FDA that is already filled using provisions of our present CBA?
None. If they do as you say, it's as I said above. They went in eyes open, against the consensus of their fellow Union members, and deserve NOTHING in the way of negotiating capital. If you think we need to sacrifice any of our lives (or capital) to save someone intent on suicide, you need to get a new job. I don't need my Union wasting my money helping out those who helped themselves when we told them not to!
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The contention that the FDAs will go junior. As I recall, SFS was manned by some pretty junior folks. If junior pilots can hold Captain positions in HKG then good for them. I thought that was why we had such high requirements for pilot employment. It is up to the Company to decide how much they are willing to pay to achieve a desired level of seniority.
Riiiiiigggghhhhttttt.... Maybe that's why the same money saving company is crapping their pants and paying WB passover pay to every single 757 LCA/SCA/PCA.... Remember those little things we've been having called 'accidents'? Think this company's insurers are going to allow them to junior man these aircraft with OUR record? Please... They want and need experience. We just need to make them pay for what they want and need.
Ladies and Gentlemen of Block 11,
In a few days you will be receiving a ballot to vote on the Foreign Duty Assignment (FDA) Letter of Agreement (LOA). I believe you should vote in favor of this LOA. In addition, based on the e-mails I have received, Block 11 seems to be waking up to the importance of paying attention to union and company issues. That is good. So, I’ll make the following points for your consideration.
Under our current Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) the Company can open both Hong Kong and Charles de Gaulle as Foreign Duty Assignments.
Yes, you're correct. However, if they do it under our current CBA, they're going to have a HELL of a time filling it. If not, those who bid it are doing so with open eyes and deserve what they get.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There could be more money in the LOA, but there is not, given that we don’t have a lot of leverage in this situation.
We don't have leverage? If we vote this LOA down, the company has three options:
(1) Man these FDAs using SIBA. This is a great deal for the crewforce and a huge expense for the company. But, hey, guess what, we currently fly Europe and South America this way and we make just a little, teensy profit. Right?
(2) Man these FDAs with new hires. Go ahead. They will all become ALPA members thanks to our new CBA, we make more money as a Union in dues and we have more people below us on the seniority roster... If you think the company will truly do this, you're not being honest with yourself or with me.
(3) Sub the work out. Not likely. Doing so in CDG will expose them to French labor courts as RyanAir recently found out. China is recruiting CRJ captains to fly domestically in an attempt to manage their explosive growth. Both their package and Cathay's package are WAY better than this LOA. Good luck to the company recruiting in that environment with a weak hand.
Option (1) is most likely for the short term it this is voted down. After paying SIBA for a while, they will have a vested interest in making a package attractive to us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Foreign Duty Assignment does not and cannot work for every pilot at FedEx. There are plenty of pilots who would not live in Subic Bay because of schooling, health care, climate, crime, distance, etc. But the base is manned, and was established with a less comprehensive benefit package than is before you now.
Less comprehensive package? Are you serious? Expat tax exclusion is yours to keep, cheap housing, strong dollar and weak local economy made moving there financially advantageous for our crewmembers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the pilots bid these bases without the LOA (and I believe they will as shown by past history), what amount of negotiating capital do you believe we will need to expend during the next round of negotiations to secure enhancements to an FDA that is already filled using provisions of our present CBA?
None. If they do as you say, it's as I said above. They went in eyes open, against the consensus of their fellow Union members, and deserve NOTHING in the way of negotiating capital. If you think we need to sacrifice any of our lives (or capital) to save someone intent on suicide, you need to get a new job. I don't need my Union wasting my money helping out those who helped themselves when we told them not to!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The contention that the FDAs will go junior. As I recall, SFS was manned by some pretty junior folks. If junior pilots can hold Captain positions in HKG then good for them. I thought that was why we had such high requirements for pilot employment. It is up to the Company to decide how much they are willing to pay to achieve a desired level of seniority.
Riiiiiigggghhhhttttt.... Maybe that's why the same money saving company is crapping their pants and paying WB passover pay to every single 757 LCA/SCA/PCA.... Remember those little things we've been having called 'accidents'? Think this company's insurers are going to allow them to junior man these aircraft with OUR record? Please... They want and need experience. We just need to make them pay for what they want and need.
07-21-2007, 09:38 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
More Block 11 Rep Letter
The LOA has reinforced Railway Labor Act protections for pilots based overseas. Attachment A of the LOA states: “During the period of the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA assignment, the laws of the United States and the laws of the states within the United States shall at all times apply to the employment relationship between me and Federal Express.” Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a key strategic plus for the pilots of our airline. If we don’t want the flying, the Company will find someone who does. All of our future growth is in the international arena. If we do not protect that flying, then we stand to lose it. I have been told by many members of our crew force that there aren’t fifty pilots in China who can fly our airplanes. This statement was made to me after I returned from Shanghai where I observed every model of Airbus and Boeing aircraft in existence being flown by pilots speaking Chinese with Chinese livery (paint jobs) on their airplanes. Do you think a country with a population of a billion people can’t produce fifty pilots?
Again I reference Chinese carriers recruiting AMERICAN pilots with very generous packages. You can 'think' what you want, but facts prove you wrong. Additionally, why do you suppose the company, which hates Unions if you remember, is so intent on having the RLA, and only the RLA, apply to FedEx pilots at FDAs. In case you've forgotten, see the French Labor Court and RyanAir reference above. The company CANNOT AFFORD to have labor laws in a labor friendly country apply to us. Voila, they come up with the 'hey fellas, have we got a deal for you' proposal. Thin as wet tissue paper. I'm suprised you can't see through it...
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The LOA is not concessionary. There is nothing in this LOA that we have given back. It may not have as much money as some people would like, but there have not been any give backs to the Company.
Either you're uninformed or simply not being honest. Here's what the dictionary says : Concede - to grant as a right or privilege; yield. We currently have the right NOT to be forced to man a FDA, regardless of the duration. This LOA concedes that right. We currently are entitled to a negotiated bonus if moving to a FDA. This LOA concedes that bonus, substituting something more to the company's advantage. Do not **** down my neck and tell me it's raining. These are give backs from our current CBA, ergo, CONCESSIONS!
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There is no school allowance. Currently, there is no allowance for schools in Subic Bay or any other base either. Yes, there are executives who are provided with allowances for the education of their children. They choose not to provide it for the pilots. How do we compel them to provide education for the children of pilots?
Currently there is no 100 mile radius for "Subic or any other base" either. Oops, that sounds like another CONCESSION. Public school is NOT AN OPTION at either CDG or HGK. The only base we have now where public school is not an option is Subic, but those who choose can live elsewhere and commute. Additionally, with the expat tax savings and the cheap local economy, private school tuition in Subic should be way more affordable. I don't know this for sure, but I'll bet you a beer bet I can prove it. Not so with this LOA.
How do we compel them? Vote 'No', see what happens. Can the educaton benefits under this LOA possibly be worse?! The answer is no. Therefore, based on that alone, we lose nothing by voting this down and potentially gain something.
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There is the contention that there could be more money for housing. True! So I’ll ask you: How much money should a pilot pay to live in Paris or Hong Kong? What is a house payment in Memphis or Seattle or Los Angeles or New York or Miami? Is the company obligated to pay the total cost of living in Paris or Hong Kong? On this same subject there are people quoting military E1 housing allowances of $5,000 + in Hong Kong. Don’t those same E1s get a housing allowance in Los Angeles ($1,700+), or any other city they are assigned to? Cathay pilots get a housing allowance that is paid directly to the landlord, but Cathay Cargo pilots earn considerably less than FedEx pilots. It’s easy to cherry pick the highest of everything. However, it’s pretty hard to negotiate the highest of what everyone else (including the military) has.
More money? Yes! How much? Well, if you assume the military is not that generous (I do after 20 years), I think their numbers would be a reasonable amount to at least equal. Your contention that the military pays housing allowance everywhere is misleading and simply not factual. The only time they pay any BAH is if you don't/can't live in base housing. If they provide housing for you, THEY PAY YOU NO HOUSING ALLOWANCE!!! If you live on the local economy, the military bases your payment on the LOCAL ECONOMY and compensates you appropriately. For an O-3 with dependents, here are the numbers:
Memphis - $1517/month
New Orleans - $1660/month
Both of these amounts will get you an ok place, but you'll still be out of pocket some on utilities and maybe a little rent. However, it's close. The military isn't into making you rich... Here's how their numbers stack up for the proposed FDAs:
Paris - $4859/month
Hong Kong - $7158/month
Both Paris and Hong Kong numbers include utility assistance money the military feels will also be needed. Again, you are very rarely able to be made whole with the military.
Look how far off the LOA is. What the hell numbers were you guys looking at? The difference between reality as expressed by our military that has been there for many, many years and the fantasy you guys agreed to ($2700/month) is simply astounding!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The contention that the STV is bad for a junior crewmember that gets Inverse Assigned to the base. That could be true. However, when you read the LOA you will find that this can only happen once every 18 bid periods. It is also my/our belief that this provision will probably go pretty senior. A pilot will be able to go to HKG or CDG for three bid periods and have accommodations paid for by the Company for the full duration of the stay. Additionally, the pilot will receive per diem for the full duration of the stay, and the family can also go over with coach tickets paid for by the company. Those of us who would have a family revolution over flying coach class would probably have to pay the difference and get a better ticket for the family. However, this seems to be a good deal to me. The pilot is also not trapped in the domicile. Touring on days off are at your own discretion and nothing precludes a jumpseat back home on days off either. Finally, Inverse Assignment has been available at our company for years. It is also a tough reality for those that are junior in seniority.
Let me get this right, you contend that this is a good deal, family can visit, it's a touring opportunity and I can j/s home on days off? I'll be running against you in the next election (I'm not kidding) and this very quote of yours will be all I need in the way of campaign material... Currently, if I'm away from home working for FedEx, I'm getting paid for it. Either trip rig, duty rig or block hours, whichever is greater. Doesn't matter much to me that I'm sitting in my hotel, I'm making 6 hours/day and with the new CBA, I'll be making 6.4 hours/day come October.
Except you fellows are willing to sell me out with this LOA. No 6.4 hours/day while sitting in a hotel away from my family. Nope, only per diem on those days I'm not actually flying. How much 'touring' will I do recovering from my three nights of three/four legs a night flying I just did over there? Family vacation. Sure, I bet the family would love to come, but they're in the public schools back home getting the education you guys weren't worried about. J/S home... From China? Working 3 on/3 off?...
You're (via this LOA) willingly giving away the protections I currently have from being sent away from my family for extended periods against my wishes and, if that does in fact happen, you're taking away the full compensation I should recieve for that separation. Are you guys getting MBOs from the company for this? Think what a fantastic thing this is for the company that they have us sitting over there, effectively at their beck and call, and they only have to pay us per diem. I'm suprised they were able to supress their smiles when they got you guys to buy off on that.
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Another shortcoming of the LOA that has been pointed out is the exchange rate of the dollar vs. the euro. Can’t argue with that. It would be nice to have the value of the LOA adjusted for exchange rates. Remember though, those adjustments can go both ways. You will have to take them into consideration when you choose to bid or not bid the bases. This probably would not be brought up if the exchange was advantageous to us.
They go both ways? Of course they do. Who gives a crap about that. The purpose of a COLA is to protect us from a deflating dollar, since we get paid in dollars and have to buy milk in Euros. It was not brought up in Subic for exactly the reason you stated - it wasn't a factor. Now it is a factor and you guys want to roll over so the company can scritch your collective bellies?! If guys move over there, the dollar drops 15% the first year, they're stuck. They just took a 15% pay cut and are contractually (by this crappy LOA) stuck there for at least one more year.
I resent everything I've pointed out above. I especially resent you guys using the privilege of ALPA email to sugar coat this dog turd of an LOA. I'm an ALPA Committe member. Worked my ass off for years for the members I represent. How about affording me the opportunity you all have seen fit to take? I certainly have a different viewpoint on this issue and am ready now to go to print.
I resent you (via this LOA) gutting ANY provisions in our current CBA. They were bought at great expense during the last two negotiations. Any provision in this LOA that deletes one iota of our CBA is UNACCEPTABLE! Start with our CBA, add to it with no strings attached.
Thank you for your time,
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, two pages is too long. There is a lot of rhetoric against this LOA. I believe some who advocate voting it down will never bid these FDAs. However, rejecting the LOA will only mean that the people who do bid the FDA will have less. More importantly, FedEx pilots need to do the flying and all of our future growth is in the International arena. Many of you may want to send a message to the union because of Age 60 or Section 11. However the message may really be to junior pilots that won’t have international flying available to them if FedEx finds another way to man foreign bases.
Fraternally,
John Grones, Chairman
FDX Council 26
Again I reference Chinese carriers recruiting AMERICAN pilots with very generous packages. You can 'think' what you want, but facts prove you wrong. Additionally, why do you suppose the company, which hates Unions if you remember, is so intent on having the RLA, and only the RLA, apply to FedEx pilots at FDAs. In case you've forgotten, see the French Labor Court and RyanAir reference above. The company CANNOT AFFORD to have labor laws in a labor friendly country apply to us. Voila, they come up with the 'hey fellas, have we got a deal for you' proposal. Thin as wet tissue paper. I'm suprised you can't see through it...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The LOA is not concessionary. There is nothing in this LOA that we have given back. It may not have as much money as some people would like, but there have not been any give backs to the Company.
Either you're uninformed or simply not being honest. Here's what the dictionary says : Concede - to grant as a right or privilege; yield. We currently have the right NOT to be forced to man a FDA, regardless of the duration. This LOA concedes that right. We currently are entitled to a negotiated bonus if moving to a FDA. This LOA concedes that bonus, substituting something more to the company's advantage. Do not **** down my neck and tell me it's raining. These are give backs from our current CBA, ergo, CONCESSIONS!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no school allowance. Currently, there is no allowance for schools in Subic Bay or any other base either. Yes, there are executives who are provided with allowances for the education of their children. They choose not to provide it for the pilots. How do we compel them to provide education for the children of pilots?
Currently there is no 100 mile radius for "Subic or any other base" either. Oops, that sounds like another CONCESSION. Public school is NOT AN OPTION at either CDG or HGK. The only base we have now where public school is not an option is Subic, but those who choose can live elsewhere and commute. Additionally, with the expat tax savings and the cheap local economy, private school tuition in Subic should be way more affordable. I don't know this for sure, but I'll bet you a beer bet I can prove it. Not so with this LOA.
How do we compel them? Vote 'No', see what happens. Can the educaton benefits under this LOA possibly be worse?! The answer is no. Therefore, based on that alone, we lose nothing by voting this down and potentially gain something.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is the contention that there could be more money for housing. True! So I’ll ask you: How much money should a pilot pay to live in Paris or Hong Kong? What is a house payment in Memphis or Seattle or Los Angeles or New York or Miami? Is the company obligated to pay the total cost of living in Paris or Hong Kong? On this same subject there are people quoting military E1 housing allowances of $5,000 + in Hong Kong. Don’t those same E1s get a housing allowance in Los Angeles ($1,700+), or any other city they are assigned to? Cathay pilots get a housing allowance that is paid directly to the landlord, but Cathay Cargo pilots earn considerably less than FedEx pilots. It’s easy to cherry pick the highest of everything. However, it’s pretty hard to negotiate the highest of what everyone else (including the military) has.
More money? Yes! How much? Well, if you assume the military is not that generous (I do after 20 years), I think their numbers would be a reasonable amount to at least equal. Your contention that the military pays housing allowance everywhere is misleading and simply not factual. The only time they pay any BAH is if you don't/can't live in base housing. If they provide housing for you, THEY PAY YOU NO HOUSING ALLOWANCE!!! If you live on the local economy, the military bases your payment on the LOCAL ECONOMY and compensates you appropriately. For an O-3 with dependents, here are the numbers:
Memphis - $1517/month
New Orleans - $1660/month
Both of these amounts will get you an ok place, but you'll still be out of pocket some on utilities and maybe a little rent. However, it's close. The military isn't into making you rich... Here's how their numbers stack up for the proposed FDAs:
Paris - $4859/month
Hong Kong - $7158/month
Both Paris and Hong Kong numbers include utility assistance money the military feels will also be needed. Again, you are very rarely able to be made whole with the military.
Look how far off the LOA is. What the hell numbers were you guys looking at? The difference between reality as expressed by our military that has been there for many, many years and the fantasy you guys agreed to ($2700/month) is simply astounding!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The contention that the STV is bad for a junior crewmember that gets Inverse Assigned to the base. That could be true. However, when you read the LOA you will find that this can only happen once every 18 bid periods. It is also my/our belief that this provision will probably go pretty senior. A pilot will be able to go to HKG or CDG for three bid periods and have accommodations paid for by the Company for the full duration of the stay. Additionally, the pilot will receive per diem for the full duration of the stay, and the family can also go over with coach tickets paid for by the company. Those of us who would have a family revolution over flying coach class would probably have to pay the difference and get a better ticket for the family. However, this seems to be a good deal to me. The pilot is also not trapped in the domicile. Touring on days off are at your own discretion and nothing precludes a jumpseat back home on days off either. Finally, Inverse Assignment has been available at our company for years. It is also a tough reality for those that are junior in seniority.
Let me get this right, you contend that this is a good deal, family can visit, it's a touring opportunity and I can j/s home on days off? I'll be running against you in the next election (I'm not kidding) and this very quote of yours will be all I need in the way of campaign material... Currently, if I'm away from home working for FedEx, I'm getting paid for it. Either trip rig, duty rig or block hours, whichever is greater. Doesn't matter much to me that I'm sitting in my hotel, I'm making 6 hours/day and with the new CBA, I'll be making 6.4 hours/day come October.
Except you fellows are willing to sell me out with this LOA. No 6.4 hours/day while sitting in a hotel away from my family. Nope, only per diem on those days I'm not actually flying. How much 'touring' will I do recovering from my three nights of three/four legs a night flying I just did over there? Family vacation. Sure, I bet the family would love to come, but they're in the public schools back home getting the education you guys weren't worried about. J/S home... From China? Working 3 on/3 off?...
You're (via this LOA) willingly giving away the protections I currently have from being sent away from my family for extended periods against my wishes and, if that does in fact happen, you're taking away the full compensation I should recieve for that separation. Are you guys getting MBOs from the company for this? Think what a fantastic thing this is for the company that they have us sitting over there, effectively at their beck and call, and they only have to pay us per diem. I'm suprised they were able to supress their smiles when they got you guys to buy off on that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another shortcoming of the LOA that has been pointed out is the exchange rate of the dollar vs. the euro. Can’t argue with that. It would be nice to have the value of the LOA adjusted for exchange rates. Remember though, those adjustments can go both ways. You will have to take them into consideration when you choose to bid or not bid the bases. This probably would not be brought up if the exchange was advantageous to us.
They go both ways? Of course they do. Who gives a crap about that. The purpose of a COLA is to protect us from a deflating dollar, since we get paid in dollars and have to buy milk in Euros. It was not brought up in Subic for exactly the reason you stated - it wasn't a factor. Now it is a factor and you guys want to roll over so the company can scritch your collective bellies?! If guys move over there, the dollar drops 15% the first year, they're stuck. They just took a 15% pay cut and are contractually (by this crappy LOA) stuck there for at least one more year.
I resent everything I've pointed out above. I especially resent you guys using the privilege of ALPA email to sugar coat this dog turd of an LOA. I'm an ALPA Committe member. Worked my ass off for years for the members I represent. How about affording me the opportunity you all have seen fit to take? I certainly have a different viewpoint on this issue and am ready now to go to print.
I resent you (via this LOA) gutting ANY provisions in our current CBA. They were bought at great expense during the last two negotiations. Any provision in this LOA that deletes one iota of our CBA is UNACCEPTABLE! Start with our CBA, add to it with no strings attached.
Thank you for your time,
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, two pages is too long. There is a lot of rhetoric against this LOA. I believe some who advocate voting it down will never bid these FDAs. However, rejecting the LOA will only mean that the people who do bid the FDA will have less. More importantly, FedEx pilots need to do the flying and all of our future growth is in the International arena. Many of you may want to send a message to the union because of Age 60 or Section 11. However the message may really be to junior pilots that won’t have international flying available to them if FedEx finds another way to man foreign bases.
Fraternally,
John Grones, Chairman
FDX Council 26
Last edited by av8rmike; 07-21-2007 at 10:06 PM.
07-21-2007, 11:08 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by John Grones
I believe some who advocate voting it down will never bid these FDAs.
Did he read the minority opinion from LEC rep who is currently IN an FDA?
07-22-2007, 04:12 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,201
I really like this closing line....
"There is a lot of rhetoric against this LOA. I believe some who advocate voting it down will never bid these FDAs"
...Wow!!
...and I can assure you there are MANY, MANY MORE who advocate voting for the FDA that will NEVER, EVER, EVER bid these FDAs --- or serve STVs.
...and that's why they just want us to vote "Yes" and "move on".
"There is a lot of rhetoric against this LOA. I believe some who advocate voting it down will never bid these FDAs"
...Wow!!
...and I can assure you there are MANY, MANY MORE who advocate voting for the FDA that will NEVER, EVER, EVER bid these FDAs --- or serve STVs.
...and that's why they just want us to vote "Yes" and "move on".
07-22-2007, 07:18 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 34
I just talked to EI and he is very disappointed with the whole process. He sent another update to the union for distribution prior to the vote and the MEC did not put it out. I guess they rather not see any more dissenting opinions floating around. By the way, most of the HKG apts are not furnished. If they said that in the meeting that is far from the truth. You can find furnished apartments but they are not affordable. Almost all the apartments in Discovery Bay and The Gold Coast areas of HKG, which is what you will be able to afford with the company's allowance, are not furnished. I am also pretty sure that furnished apartments in CDG won't be an affordable option.
07-22-2007, 08:21 AM
#7
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by John Grones
I believe some who advocate voting it down will never bid these FDAs.
Yea, so whats the point?? A lot of the people who will vote yes will probably do it because they wont bid these FDA's! Sounds like all of the guys who wont bid these FDA's need to read the LOA and educate themselves on the finer details. And, speaking of rhetoric......ah, never mind!
I believe some who advocate voting it down will never bid these FDAs.
Yea, so whats the point?? A lot of the people who will vote yes will probably do it because they wont bid these FDA's! Sounds like all of the guys who wont bid these FDA's need to read the LOA and educate themselves on the finer details. And, speaking of rhetoric......ah, never mind!
07-22-2007, 09:02 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I just talked to EI and he is very disappointed with the whole process. He sent another update to the union for distribution prior to the vote and the MEC did not put it out. I guess they rather not see any more dissenting opinions floating around. By the way, most of the HKG apts are not furnished. If they said that in the meeting that is far from the truth. You can find furnished apartments but they are not affordable. Almost all the apartments in Discovery Bay and The Gold Coast areas of HKG, which is what you will be able to afford with the company's allowance, are not furnished. I am also pretty sure that furnished apartments in CDG won't be an affordable option.
Have him E Mail it to me and I will personally put it in every locker in MEM on WED.
07-22-2007, 09:29 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,419
Appt finder link for HK
http://www.colliershomes.com/
properties seem to be just like your typical US apt complex and unfurnished. Serviced apartments are furnished and only come with partial "servicing" but I get the impression that the affordable ones are pretty small.
4k US = 31.1k HK
Anyone know where the Aarons rent to own center is in HKG?
http://www.colliershomes.com/
properties seem to be just like your typical US apt complex and unfurnished. Serviced apartments are furnished and only come with partial "servicing" but I get the impression that the affordable ones are pretty small.
4k US = 31.1k HK
Anyone know where the Aarons rent to own center is in HKG?
07-22-2007, 09:34 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
On the thread awaiting the Minority/Con opinion, I mentioned that this would happen. The policy manual only requires a con position paper to be published to the membership. After that is done, they are under no obligation to discuss/acknowledge it any further. This is true at any ALPA carrier with any MEC. That is why you will not hear about it at roadshows, hub-turn meetings, e-mails, etc unless the membership holds their feet to the fire on it. It's also why you get that timeshare feeling after going to any type of roadshow. The way the bylaws are written, once a MEC endorses a deal, it is a seriously tough road to derail them from getting 50 + 1 % of the vote.
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