Haywood JB

As Albie and many others have put it, if the MEC can't change the SVT thing, I will vote no. I am also putting the word out to all the capt's I fly with to do the same so that I don't get STD' to Hong Kong while the senior guys choose not to bid this. Some of the captains I've spoken with don't really know what this LOA involves because, since they are senior enough to not bid it, or get inversed, they are saying that they have faith in the MEC.

The money and other things are pretty shortsighted IMO, but the STV is a showstopper. Some people want to go, and it doesn't matter what the company offers, they are going to go, but the issue is choice. I'd like to keep it that way.

HJ

hamfisted

While we stand firm that we should not bid this FDA(which I won't) if this LOA passes or fails, we say that we would be supporting our Union and brotherhood by staying away from it. My beef is that our Union has already said they support this LOA by an 11-1 margin. Our resolve to fight it then simply becomes a wildcat effort since we've already been sold down the river by our Union leadership. The Company knows that they already have us by the nads because of two things........our Union is not willing to fight for a better LOA and the senior guys are apathetic simply because they don't feel it will ever impact them. Very clearly, the Union leadership doesn't care how this is resolved because they don't ever see themselves personally participating in this FDA program. This whole "scope protection win" is just a ruse to hide their lack of aggression during negotiations.Again; OUR Union selling the junior guys short during ahem.."negotiations". To refute my statement, all the Union would have to do is present their openers to show me they went to bat for us instead of jumping at this POS LOA so we can all be happy and have our next bid.

MAWK90

Maybe I am missing the point here, but I believe when we voted down the postal LOA, it helped us get the CBA we have now. It showed the company we could stand together and say NO for once.

SleepyF18

[QUOTE=Purpledriver;194347]I agree 100% Daniel.....The VIPS link for Q and A about this thing is B.S....I'm not going to trust the company to tell me what a great deal this thing is. The answers we are getting at the meetings are lacking. Our former SPC ( W.R ) when asked about schools in Paris said the public schools in Paris are great. They teach English as a 2nd language from the begining. When it was pointed out that most kids from the US don't speak French..the language that the majority of the school day was taught in.....he said that they would "catch up". QUOTE]

I responded in a different post that I'm pretty sure that he regrets those ill thought comments.

Some guy

Those of us not in favor of this LOA really need to talk it up with our fellow crewmembers and especially the senior Capts. I've been doing so, and have been amazed how disengaged some Capts are. They seem to think that since it won't directly affect them, and since the union supports it, so should they.

If this LOA passes, I think it will further divide our union (which is still recovering from the age 65 debacle) along junior vs. senior lines. How will a fragmented union help us when we have to start negotiations?

Sadly the union has said that based on our past performance we don't have any leverage to get a better deal. However, I believe if we as a group vote this down and don't bid the FDAs we'll have plenty of leverage. We need to talk this up (outside of this forum) and educate the masses. I'm ready to take a stand and I hope others are too.

No on the LOA and don't bid the FDAs!

In unity,
SG

MX727

Well, not really. We never voted on that LOA. The MEC didn't forward it to the membership for ratification.

Check 6

Disengaged????

On the crew bus in IND last night a Capt I know got on... we chit chatted and then I asked him what his thoughts on the LOA were...."oh I'm voting for it" I expressed my shock and then hit the talking point...when I was done he said...."well maybe I should read it!" ****???!!! Going to vote yes and not even read it yet....WOW. Then the FO chimes in that he was voting yes because he was afraid of what the CO might do if we vote it down...!!! Once again WOW!

So he thinks we should vote YES because we are afraid! Why can't we just vote on the MERITS of this LOA???

Talk it up on the bus boys and girls.... I think maybe the people on these boards may be fooling ourselves if we think the masses are informed.

It mad me sad

767pilot

Little place called Israel. There was a trade off that may (or may not) have been worth it. The trade was that as long as we were not flying that route, managers could not pick up open time flying, theoreticlly increasing the amount of block hours to our pilot group.

A better analogy would have been when we were told that we had the company by the balls when the MD-11 came on the property. They would not be able to IRO it with our then contract. We were told we had a HHHHUUUUGGGGGEEEEEEE chip. The company and the union negotiated a package to buy that section of the contract back, often called our "mid term agreement". We were all full of **** and vinegar and thought it was worth yet more.

The package was turned down. The joke ended up on us (and you). Negotiations ended, we agreed to disagree with the company on the MD-11 IRO issue and use captains as IRO's as we did in the 767 initially, with the right to arbitrate in the future should we decide. We had been told that the MD-11 would never be operated west of ANC. The problem was that the bluster aimed at the company was believed by the rank and file. Nobody told us we were bluffing <G>!

The new contract gave away captain IRO's and in reality did not come anywhere near the mid term in other areas when compared to what we ended up with. Had we voted the mid term in and gone up from there, we (and you my purple brothers) would have been miles ahead of where we are today.

I've sat back and watched your internal arguments and there are some good points. I'd probably be a no voter, I guess it's my nature <G>, but there are some things to keep in mind. Stuff like schools and some cost of living are good points, but keep something in mind. You are going to live overseas. That is the whole point. Overseas is different.

No company is going to pay you enough to live in an american style overseas. They know that there is supply even within your own ranks. It's not that they can't afford to pay you enough, they just know that they won't have to.

Nobody in our pay range lives in the Memphis 3-5000 square foot homes on 1/2 to full acre lots in Hong Kong or Paris. You don't see too many soccer moms driving SUV's. Try and get by on an American diet and you'll go broke too.

Make the valid arguments, like the quality of affordable schools, that you want the same as your managers get, etc. Arguments that involve you going over there and having the same standard of living that you enjoy as an FDX Captain or FO in MEM are bound to fail.

That's my two cents and as an outsider you can take it for what it is worth. Sometimes a little perspective is a good thing. I hope you get every cent that you can out of them, and as good of a deal as possible, because whatever you guys do will set the course for us as well.

Vive la difference!

Albief15

How would you feel about your Brown managers assigning you overseas for 3 months? That is the issue here. Scope and lower overrides are small issues compared to the control this group will surrender to the company if they buy off on this LOA.

767pilot

I agree and hope that your guys can make that argument. It will go a lot further than complaining about the size of your flat on the Champs d' Elysse which is what I am hearing a lot of here.