HankHill

I say that if this LOA is good enough for all, then lets write in the LOA that the whole MEC must go and be the first ones to try it out. Yeah I know, when pigs fly.

I would love to be in the left seat of that 57 but the whole LOA would be alot better if it were to benefit the senior folks. Also I believe the LOA is biased against those with families. The LOA should read " TO ALL SINGLE JUNIOR CREWMEMBERS WE HAVE A DEAL FOR YOU", cause if you have any seniority and vote for this LOA and/or bid the FDA you need to get off that crack pipe and pass it back to those who negotiated this POS.

Just my small narrow minded opinion

FR8Hauler

[QUOTE=HankHill;188647]I say that if this LOA is good enough for all, then lets write in the LOA that the whole MEC must go and be the first ones to try it out. Yeah I know, when pigs fly.

I would love to be in the left seat of that 57 but the whole LOA would be alot better if it were to benefit the senior folks. Also I believe the LOA is biased against those with families. The LOA should read " TO ALL SINGLE JUNIOR CREWMEMBERS WE HAVE A DEAL FOR YOU", cause if you have any seniority and vote for this LOA and/or bid the FDA you need to get off that crack pipe and pass it back to those who negotiated this POS.

Yea, great idea. Why don't you spend all of your extra time trying to help out the crewforce. Maybe you do, but I doubt it. Calling them pigs is about as low as it gets. What a cheap shot. You are about as big of a pu$$y as they get. Just my small narrow minded view too.

AerisArmis

[Calling them pigs is about as low as it gets.]

Whoa there big fella, he didn't actually call them pigs. Maybe "when hell freezes over" would have been less inflamatory, no?

FR8Hauler

Maybe so but I doubt it. Just another shot in the back to the guys who are trying to further or profession and our crewforce,

DiamondZ

Why was this not addressed in the current contract, knowing the company's desire to establish foreign bases?

HazCan

I am pretty sure that several of us tried to give them a shot across the bow re: Age 60 and were told that we didn't know what was best for us, get on board, it's the right thing to do, shut up and color....etc, etc, etc.

I am sure "When pigs fly" wasn't meant to call the MEC pigs. Would "when hell freezes over", or "when monkeys fly out of my butt" gone down better for you?

BrownGirls YUM

I see. Furthering the profession by "negotiating" a deal where the choice is zero compensation OR concession of every bit of previously negotiated section 6 benefits (not to mention a few spots in other sections), all so a pilot can get a silly suggestion of an offset of $2700.00.

I'm amazed our negotiators would GIVE UP an entire section in lieu of such a ridiculous suggestion of a cost of living amount. The numbers out there are an insult EVEN WHEN connected to our current CBA, let alone when the CBA is waived for this money, it's a total joke.

If these are the guys that are supposed to be "furthering our profession and the crew force", then no thanks. They are no longer capable.

I have a feeling Fr8hauler has a mustache and if so, he can acquire the smell of my backside in the thing.

Albief15

The more I think about it, the more I think the junior manning thing is the worst part of the whole deal. We've kept that out of every CBA. As bad as we think it is when we tell guys not to accept VLT or DRF at times, can you imagine the power we are giving the schedulers to JA guys TDY overseas? Remember--once we do that--they can man it as THEY see fit. That means they can add extra bodies if they see a need. You might think you aren't junior so it won't matter--but imagine your shock when you get JA'd to Hong Kong for 3 months (when you were planning on doing those honey-dos around the house) and since you were X from the bottom you were "safe". Not so fast...lots of "peak" activity over there--and boom you are off to the joint. Also--if they guys started to just work their lines (IAW their rights under the contract and RLA) and do no extra, the company could JA extra bodies to the domicile as they saw fit. Hmmmmm......

Yeah--they can SIBA you now--but with the built in travel time and guaranteed trip over and back, I think its a much better deal if you DO NOT want to go than the proposed option.

Just my thoughts. I'll vote no. You guys vote as your conscience dictates. I'm not furious with the MEC or anyone on the other side of this, and I can see where the guys voting "yes" have some points. But I think we are giving away a lot more than we might get for our guys if we approve this one.

Jetjok

HankHill, do you know for a fact that our pilots on the MEC will not be doing this flying? If so, please let me know how Apple and Microsoft will fare during the next 180 days.

FR8Hauler, HankHill was certainly not calling our MEC pigs. He was just saying that he feels that if this LOA is good enough for everyone, then maybe the whole MEC should go and be the first ones to try it out.

As crazy an idea as that might have been, it does have merit. In fact, here's my idea, if the LOA is voted down and the company institutes these two domiciles in the form of SIBA assignments:

Let's assume, for the sake of this example:

1) that there are 1000 guys on the entire Memphis domicile seniority list, in the jets that will be used in these two new overseas "bases", the Airbus and the B-757.

2) Hong Kong (Airbus) manning will be 100 pilots, of which 40 are Captains and (public math) 60 are First Officers.

3) Paris (B-757) manning will be exactly the same as Hong Kong.

Now for the part I like the most, the one that actually equalizes the whole thing, so that nobody, neither the senior guys nor the junior guys, gets shafted too badly. For the rest of this example, we'll only consider the Hong Kong (HK) "base". The exact same methodology should be envisioned for the Paris base.

Here Goes:

The first quarter that HK is open, 15 Captains and 10 First Officers actually bid this base. Therefore, the company does a reverse seniority (junior manning) and takes the bottom 25 captains and the bottom 50 First Officers from the Memphis Airbus "base" and sends them over to HK to fly there for the next 3 months.

The next quarter, 20 Captains and 5 First Officers bid HK. The company again does the reverse seniority drill, but this time, they move up the seniority list, to (for Captains) the next 20 junior-most Captains that have not done HK SIBA, and the next 55 First Officers that have not done HK SIBA.

The third quarter 15 Captains and 20 First Officers bid HK. Again, the company moves up the list (in each seat) and assigns the bottom-most guys (who have not done either a reverse seniority or a voluntary SIBA assignment) and assigns them SIBA. This quarter the company will take 25 Captains and 40 First Officers to perform SIBA.

The forth quarter..... well, hopefully you were able to follow the logic of my little plan.


The above procedure would certainly favor the junior guys, in both seats, because you would not be assigned (junior manned) the HK SIBA, a second time, until ALL PILOTS on the Memphis Airbus seniority list had done SIBA once. While at the same time, hopefully, (because as we all know FDX ALPA is a Captains union, and all the good deals are set up for the senior Captains), making everyone take part in this HK SIBA, the union would negotiate a better SIBA deal, so that not only the senior guys, but everyone benefits equally.

This procedure will have other benefits as well: Not only does it provide a large amount of time between junior mannings (for the individual pilot), it also has the added benefit of increasing the professional qualifications of our crew force, by allowing (and in some cases forcing) them to do a different type of flying. SIBA flying is much more demanding and as such, it should improve the skills of all flying in that dynamic environment. And theoretically, because everyone has to do SIBA once, before anyone is forced to do SIBA a second time, and the senior guys too, the lines and perks should be better.

Also, considering seniority, if a senior guy wants to take control of his situation, all he needs do is bid SIBA on his own terms. Once his SIBA assignment is completed, his name is then removed from the "SIBA eligible" list, so that he won't be assigned SIBA when his turn comes. He can still bid SIBA any time he wants, and based on his seniority, he'll get it, and at the same time, he'll remove one pilot from getting junior manned into the SIBA assignment.

Well, that's my idea. I believe this is a win-win situation, unless of course you're one of those guys who has never flown anything but Memphis-Nashville afternoon out and backs. Some times you just have to think outside the box, and in my case, after being married for 37 years to the exact same woman, that's the only way I think anymore. What do you think?

FDXLAG

SIBA does not work that way. STVs do. STVs do not happen unless this LAO passes.

I would go to HK with SIBA rules. 1 in 7, 1 in 10, min days off; NW stock would sky rocket and so would my miles.