Globemaster2827

I think yall are more than worth it and maybe you are right. If ACMI pilots think like that then they never will see it. I believe yall will get there one day and that you're worth as much or more than any pilot at any airline.

sky jet

Some K4 pilots; "I'm voting NO because the retirement is not enough and it's not getting me anywhere near where I want to be.

Those same pilots at home with their significant other: "I just want to rub your back, you look stressed."

Me: Hmmmmm

Reactivity

ACMI pilots do not get paid like legacy pilots because they do not generate the kind of revenue (to the extent that pilots can be credited with generating revenue) that legacy pilots generate. Grabbing some numbers that are publicly available, let's compare Atlas in 2020 (because it was better than 2019) and Delta in 2019 (because their compensation was negotiated in a time when business was not depressed by The Covid).

Atlas: $3.21 billion in revenue, 1944 pilots according to APC = $1.65 million per pilot
Delta: $47 billion in revenue, 12,946 pilots = $3.63 million per pilot

You wanna get paid like a legacy pilot? You're gonna have to generate revenue like a legacy pilot. Good luck with that.

zerozero

YGTBSM.

First of all, pound for pound, a 747 packed full of Chinese electronics makes way more money than a 777 packed to the gills with the sweaty unwashed masses.

Apples to oranges dude.

Next, lets take a look at how much more time on duty per month is spent by an Atlas pilot compared to a Delta pilot.

Atlas pilots work harder and longer, in more theaters, operating more variant airframes than any Delta pilot hands down, by a country mile.

newb2

I don’t believe I heard anyone say they want to be compensated like a legacy carrier pilot, but it that helps you sleep at night so be it.

The real question I need to ask is why this worthless no good POS contract is being pushed so hard by our MEC. Take the emotion out of your decision and ask yourself why, once you do you might just find things are not what they appear to be.

Reactivity

NIMCAMNSY

If you're going to insist that you deserve to be paid like a legacy pilot, you're going to have to be compared to a legacy pilot. The "apples to oranges" comparison is entirely appropriate.

Duty time doesn't mean jack. "Theaters" don't mean jack. Airplanes packed to the gills with Chinese electronics don't mean jack if they don’t move often enough to generate comparable revenue.

It's all about the Benjamins, baby, and Delta generates more of them per pilot than Atlas does, by more than 2:1. That's why they make the big bucks. Find a way to double ACMI revenue without increasing labor costs, and you, too, can make the phat stacks like your friends at the legacies.

Reactivity

Asking for a 15% DC is asking to be compensated like a legacy pilot. Where else does anyone come up with that number except to look at what the legacies are getting and saying, "Why don't we get that?" You might be able to get it, but your'e going to have to give up something else. Start with the much-beloved home basing.

Thinking this has anything to do with how I sleep is a really odd non-sequitur.

jhugz

Jetblue, Frontier, Spirit...we're asking to have the same retirement as our LCC counterparts. Record setting company profits amidst a Pandemic in which the pilots were exposed the worst. We aren't asking for the Delta +1, we're asking for an industry standard retirement, QoL improvements, and improved work rules. Instead, we got a couple percentage point raise and that's about it.

newb2

Quick question, do you work at Kalitta?

K4 pilots are not asking for, nor were we expecting to be compensated with a Delta, UPS, FedEx, or any other legacy carrier contract, and to suggest this is just wrong. The problem we face is there is NO improvement in quality-of-life issues, and this is where this offer falls flat on its face. My question is why our MEC is pushing this contract so hard, and so far no one can answer that question.

If you work for Kalitta, and believe we get what we get because we are not a legacy carrier, I need to question your sanity. If you don’t work for Kalitta, might I suggest you refrain from interjecting nonsense into this discussion.

mcfadden

No, you're wrong.

It is apples to oranges because Atlas doesn't pay for fuel in most cases and they don't have to make payments on the aircraft they fly in many cases too. The legacy carriers have to pay for all of that which reduces their profits in comparison to revenue.

Secondly, maybe DHL, Amazon, etc just need to pay more. Did you ever think of that? If Kalitta and Atlas pilots are getting close to what legacy pilots are getting maybe they'll have to raise their rates and DHL and Amazon won't have much choice except to pay up.

Thirdly, Southwest makes 22 mil in revenue and has 10k pilots. That's 2.2 mil per pilot. That's a lot less than the numbers you gave for Delta. Why aren't Southwest pilots getting paid 60% of what Delta pilots are? With SWA work rules they generally get paid just as much as Delta and the other legacy carriers.

Stop selling us short.