Fdx Passover Pay Issue
#31
You will get no argument from me that the Contract lacks specific guidance on how to handle those situations, and better language could prevent such fiascos in the future. (Such language may have unintended consequences, too.) However, I will not agree that the Union failed to represent a segment of our seniority list in that case. They didn't win, but they did as much as they could.
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#32
Tony,
Just curious...What would happen if the 727/SO was awarded ANC MD11/FO on Bid#1 and 727/CAP on Bid#2? Because he decided he didn't want to go to the MAdDog?
I know that is the way, myself and many of my friends have gotten out of unfavorable training dates. By bidding off it, on the next bid. Are you saying the company could have forced me to go to school for something or somewhere I bid off of?
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#34
And that's half of the problem.
Another 727 SO bids everything at 100% hoping to move up as fast as possible. On the first bid, he's awarded 727 FO, and he has a training date in 3 months. A month before he starts training, he's awarded MD-11 FO with a training date of 18 months from now. If he goes to 727 FO school, he can earn narrow-body FO pay for 15 months. If he doesn't, he'll be stuck earning narrow-body SO pay for the entire time. He wants to keep his training date. You want to drop yours.
Which is right?
Again, the Contract was written to support the needs of the Company. If they need him as an SO more than as an FO, he'll lose the training date. If they need him in the 727 right seat, he'll train. If they need your pilot in ANC as an MD-11 FO until his 727 Captain training rolls around, he'll train. If they don't, he won't.
Depending on the situation, there are benefits to both ways -- for the Company, and for us. The trouble is, THEY get to decide. Guess who always wins.
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Another 727 SO bids everything at 100% hoping to move up as fast as possible. On the first bid, he's awarded 727 FO, and he has a training date in 3 months. A month before he starts training, he's awarded MD-11 FO with a training date of 18 months from now. If he goes to 727 FO school, he can earn narrow-body FO pay for 15 months. If he doesn't, he'll be stuck earning narrow-body SO pay for the entire time. He wants to keep his training date. You want to drop yours.
Which is right?
Again, the Contract was written to support the needs of the Company. If they need him as an SO more than as an FO, he'll lose the training date. If they need him in the 727 right seat, he'll train. If they need your pilot in ANC as an MD-11 FO until his 727 Captain training rolls around, he'll train. If they don't, he won't.
Depending on the situation, there are benefits to both ways -- for the Company, and for us. The trouble is, THEY get to decide. Guess who always wins.
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#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
Tony,
Give these guys a break, we both know they got hosed and the union told them to pound sand.
I RFO'd with one of these guys, and he told me he talked to his block rep and was told that he had a hard time convincing the older dudes about his grievance request. Said that he was just lucky to be awarded a widebody so soon, they had to be 727 S/Os for years... Basically, shut up and color..
You can defend these dudes as much as you want, but they did nothing to defend these guys when they knew they got hosed. But then again, the over 60 engineers certainly deserve all the help they can get...
Give these guys a break, we both know they got hosed and the union told them to pound sand.
I RFO'd with one of these guys, and he told me he talked to his block rep and was told that he had a hard time convincing the older dudes about his grievance request. Said that he was just lucky to be awarded a widebody so soon, they had to be 727 S/Os for years... Basically, shut up and color..
You can defend these dudes as much as you want, but they did nothing to defend these guys when they knew they got hosed. But then again, the over 60 engineers certainly deserve all the help they can get...
#36
Tony,
Give these guys a break, we both know they got hosed and the union told them to pound sand.
I RFO'd with one of these guys, and he told me he talked to his block rep and was told that he had a hard time convincing the older dudes about his grievance request. Said that he was just lucky to be awarded a widebody so soon, they had to be 727 S/Os for years... Basically, shut up and color..
You can defend these dudes as much as you want, but they did nothing to defend these guys when they knew they got hosed. But then again, the over 60 engineers certainly deserve all the help they can get...
I know these guys feel let down, and I can appreciate the frustration. But I can assure you that it's not the Union's fault. The Union did more than I thought they could, and they won more than I thought they could. For them to now be accused of these things is ludicrous.
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#38
I heard one conversation with one guy on one day. I can't vouch for everything that everyone said. Could he have run in to someone with a bad attitude and gotten an unpleasant result? I'm sure he could have. Nobody's perfect. But that's not even the point I think we're arguing here.
Beside manner or not, the issue under examination is whether the Union sacrificed the seniority rights of a group of junior pilots. Given the circumstances of the Contract, past practices of the Company, and the effort that was exerted to put egg on our collective faces and still walk away with a monetary award, albeit little more than a token, I can't see how one could argue that the Union just rolled over on junior folks just because they were junior. They went to bat, and then cut our losses.
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