RedeyeAV8r

Just Edited it

Have you ever been in a fight son?

Do mosts fights go exactly as planned , especially when you are the under dog?

Generally my experience has shown me that when my tactic isn't working, I change my tactics. Changing your tactics to meet the threat is one thing....................turning tail and running is quite another.

Would you be better suited if all your ALPA leaders quit?
After 3 months of elections and appointments and everyone getting their feet wet this whole deal my already be done.

If you think that would be better.........get a written resolution ready for an emergency meeting and another resolution for the recall of everyone.

SNAFU

Dad:

Actually, it appears to me that all of my ALPA "leaders" have quit.

They have thrown in the towel and determined what is best for the majority despite overwhelming evidence that the majority is against a change.

If, as you contend, the change is coming regardless, what difference does it matter who our ALPA leaders are?

When you pay somebody to represent you and they stop doing so, do you blindly continue to pay and support them, or do you change tactics and stop paying them?

RedeyeAV8r

Fine Son.............Be a Quitter, that will show' em

MalteseX

I agree with not quitting and calling the reps. However, I disagree with your assertion that *****ing on these boards is not productive.

For example, while I was mildly ****ed at webb's email, now after reading what other junior members feel about the shaft, I'm pretty fired up to take some action. It's a way to get people together and let others know there are many that feel the same way. And if these are any indication of the numbers of people that are upset, then there are many times more that number that don't read these boards.

We've PM'd around and a small but active movement is starting. These boards are getting a few of us together, that hopefully will grow, that will eventually act as one body. Heck, almost like a mini-union within a so-called union.

The boards work...... and it's good to *****. Those that are of "like-mind" are getting PM'd to see what the heck we can do to make our concerns ACTUALLY be heard.

Huck

On "Quitters":

I am the proud son of a Local 1 member of the red-book variety. And the nephew of a 570'er at UAL. There've been folks in my family in ALPA continuously for 40 years. I've seen the days when ALPA was a union: cargo restrictions on pax planes, mandatory passenger screening, fighting cabotage, fighting foreign control, one level of safety, even FFDO.

My dad loves to tell the story of the SOS - a two-day nationwide stoppage participated in by every major carrier but Delta. And for ALOT SMALLER issues than this.

But not now. The only quitters I see here are the guys that let the EU decide this issue for us. What's next? Foreign ownership? Cabotage? "The EU already has Air Lagos flying point-to-point within its borders. How can we be different?"

Behnke must be spinning like a rotisserie chicken right about now. He would know who the real quitters are.

FlybyKnite

Don’t believe I’m wading into this one but,

So which is it-- politics or influence the rules process? Sorry, forgot they are the same thing in Washington. And let us not forget that all politics are really local, and our politicians (of all sorts) tend to let ‘local’ slide in the face of ‘national’ pressures.

Maybe I’m just too naïve, but I don’t see the problem with being on the record as opposed to an issue and at the same time being an advocate for responsible [inevitable] change. But I guess you have no credibility if you say: “I don’t like it one bit, BUT, if you are going to make a change then I would suggest [fill in blank] for the following reasons [blank 2].

So what is the offending legislative language?

So the rule doesn’t change until the Effective Date. Seems like a definite date on the calendar to me. So we should let pilots skirt the rule by changing seats for a day/a month/a year and then slide back up front. Sorry, but I don’t see seniority trumping a FAA rule change. If you weren’t there the day before the rule changes, it’s tough luck not abrogation of your seniority. You are simply “disadvantageously grandfathered”. Just like before the rule change, you still have a job and your seniority (if there's a backseat to be had). Bottom line: It is the rule we live with, until it’s officially changed.

And I think despite today’s “statistical dead heat”, that the national May 2005 poll showing 56% opposed versus 42% for the rule change should have a little more credence and weight because it was taken without the NPRM staring us in the face. Anybody remember what the LOCAL numbers were?


.

MalteseX

The FAA is highly unlikely to implement the rule to age 65 all at once. But they haven't decided how to implement it. That's where the voices need to be heard. they will be holding hearings and there will be open comments allowed for the rule change. We need to collectively make sure that the rule change is implemented in steps, slow steps. Remember, unless congress acts to force this, and it doesn't look like they will if the FAA voluntarily changes the rule, the implementation will be left up to bureaucrats. It's up to us to influence the bureaucrats.

MalteseX

Anybody see the results of the survey that said retiree health care was the #1 issue before the last contract.? Or did everybody, like me, take their word for it. The reason I'm questioning it now is due to your points above, plus last nights email, PLUS the fact that at the meetings from the MEC on the TA negotiations most questions seemed to revolve around pay--not many seemed to be concerned about healthcare.

It's beginning to seem that all these survey "results" always point to what benefits a certain few union leaders. And I've taken them at their word--- now I'm questioning it.

MalteseX

I'm ashamed to admit this, but it's true and I was wrong..... but I didn't pay too much attention or care about the elections. I didn't even read the literature at all. I didn't care because we had a new contract and everything was going OK. I learned my lesson, I got the wakeup call.... I should have paid attention.
Now to answer your questions. I don't know if we'd be better suited if all the Alpa leaders quit..... I would have said no, but now I am wondering.
Second question. I think we need to poll the members.... vote on this issue one on one --- no survey but a vote..... recall is probably too early , but we should at least begin to talk about that along with the plusses and minuses

FoxHunter

The rule is not being changed by the FAA, it is being changed by a law that Congress will pass. The change is effective 30 days after the President signs it.