Nitefrater

You DO understand that flying and working are not the same thing, right? I too love to fly, and plan to fly until I die. I just don't plan on WORKING until I die, despite Fred's fondest wish that I do so.

Get a Cub - Mentor some deserving kids - Give something back. Something along those lines.

-Frater

Gooch121

RedeyeAV8er:

My statement above was directed towards to Gunter's following comment:

"Us junior guys don't want ALPA or DW to have any influence on the legislation as they will only lobby for retroactive changes. Congress, if left alone, will keep/make it prospective."

I agree with you on many of your points, however if a person, on whole, wants a "say" in the proactive vs retroactive decision, the only choice of action is withholding PAC monies. Our MEC leadership has chosen to follow it's own lead. Do you think ALPA National will listen to our (the membership's) arguments? No, I think not. The system is setup so National listens only to our MEC Chair as he sits at the Executive Board. He is supposed to represent us. Our Chair has already told us what he intends to do and a majority of the membership appears to be at odds with his decision.

Short of a complete cleaning house of our union leadership, what other avenues of comment or influence is available to us. I've talked with my LEC rep, the Comm Chair and had numerous emails with the Vice, I don't see any potential for a change in their position.

All of the negative things looming on the HILL will still be lobbied by ALPA, whether we pull our monies or not. I'm a realist enough to believe any monies dropped as a result of DUMPING THE PAC would have only a slight impact on their bank account and lobbying schedule, but it is still the one aspect of this union I have complete control over. Stop/Start....all with a stroke of a pen...

Thanks for the comment

CaptainMark

yeah...OK!!!!...go buy a cessna....and you are an engineer...you are not flying!!!!!...just taking a newhires seat...please go get a life..you had your time

fdx727pilot

I'm so glad the less senior pilots have you as their advocate.

Gooch121

deleted by me

FDXLAG

So you don't think calling members in good standing "junior varsity" is being an arrogant prick?

Busboy

Does anyone else think that it is a very odd coincidence that all this came out shortly after we were supposed to watch the "violence in the workplace" video?

fdx727pilot

Maybe, maybe not. As I learned a few pages ago, a less inflamatory choice of words is usually a good thing. Also, Zman seems to have a history of "ready, shoot, aim," so, since I disagree with you on this issue (which probably will get me called names,) having him in the forefront just makes those in opposition such as me, that much happier.

Daniel Larusso

You make a solid point about the reality/difficulty of a recall-of course that was already brought up several pages ago by a couple of the junior varsity members you speak of. But in case you didn't see it here goes: a recall is next to impossible because it can only be done by the MEC which at least on the surface is showing complete loyalty to DWebb. You'd have find a few MEC members willing to recall, find appropriate candidates to replace the others including Webb, and establish an effective and cohesive grass roots plan to discredit the MEC members who support Webb to get a recall motion successfully approved for even a vote. At an airline this big, my guess is that it would take 6-8 mos. of ground work minimum and that's if you are focused and motivated from the jump off. That's probably lowball considering the low local population in our largest domicile, reaching the hinterlands would be harder and all the incumbents would do is pack each recall motion meeting with local MEM pilots who support them. What I just wrote is reality, but probably is a little too dirty and political feeling for the masses around here-something that the politicians who accept ALPA positions know all too well. That's why Webb can say things like if you loses his job over this so be it. I seriously doubt the entire MEC is firmly behind what is going on here, but the dissenters are likely outnumbered and are not about to stick their necks out for any kind of opposition when they don't have the guns to pull it off. Appear unified and save your bullets for another day.

Capt. Zman is right about better education from the union being needed, but it ain't just the newhires or the junior. There are plenty of senior types on here and in the system who don't know much about the machinations of ALPA at both the local and national level. Alot of the junior varsity team has been around the block more than you give them credit for and the rest are sharp and tend to be quick learners if you give them the info. Ever consider that part of the reason that they are so mad at ALPA is that they've seen this movie before and the popcorn isn't tasting any better this go-round?

As far as taking it to Washington ourselves, that's a silly argument. We pay ALPA to do that for us because a collective voice is stronger than an individual one when it comes to lobbying, but that voice must be carrying the message that the majority wishes for for it to work. Again you make some good points that are lost among the junior varsity and the woe is me 'geriatric' pilots aren't going to hurt your career comments.

FDX28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Larusso

You make a solid point about the reality/difficulty of a recall-of course that was already brought up several pages ago by a couple of the junior varsity members you speak of. But in case you didn't see it here goes: a recall is next to impossible because it can only be done by the MEC which at least on the surface is showing complete loyalty to DWebb. You'd have find a few MEC members willing to recall, find appropriate candidates to replace the others including Webb, and establish an effective and cohesive grass roots plan to discredit the MEC members who support Webb to get a recall motion successfully approved for even a vote. At an airline this big, my guess is that it would take 6-8 mos. of ground work minimum and that's if you are focused and motivated from the jump off. That's probably lowball considering the low local population in our largest domicile, reaching the hinterlands would be harder and all the incumbents would do is pack each recall motion meeting with local MEM pilots who support them. What I just wrote is reality, but probably is a little too dirty and political feeling for the masses around here-something that the politicians who accept ALPA positions know all too well. That's why Webb can say things like if you loses his job over this so be it. I seriously doubt the entire MEC is firmly behind what is going on here, but the dissenters are likely outnumbered and are not about to stick their necks out for any kind of opposition when they don't have the guns to pull it off. Appear unified and save your bullets for another day.

Capt. Zman is right about better education from the union being needed, but it ain't just the newhires or the junior. There are plenty of senior types on here and in the system who don't know much about the machinations of ALPA at both the local and national level. Alot of the junior varsity team has been around the block more than you give them credit for and the rest are sharp and tend to be quick learners if you give them the info. Ever consider that part of the reason that they are so mad at ALPA is that they've seen this movie before and the popcorn isn't tasting any better this go-round?

This is from another thread

Obviously there has been enough noise that the membership has seen several e-mails, and a AOC meeting. The MEC's position still is "we know what's better," and so we (the membership) need to step to the next level of voice which is begin a recall effort. If the MEC continues to ignore the majority, then, the recall happens at 66%. So if the recall doesn't happen, DW/MEC continues on their line of thought, I guarantee that we'll have a much bigger showing in the next elections. - Not a bad thing -

Did any of you get the e-mails about the lack of turnout of the at the LEC meetings? I know I'm going to be at more meetings and become more involved.

If the current MEC does stop it's line of thought,and does what the MEC is supposed to do, then it's not a bad thing.

If all in all, the only outcome is that we get more involved in an entity that has great impact on our careers, QOL, pay, benefits, longevity of the company we work for; we've all won.

ALPA CONSTITUTION Everyone should read it, I never even thought of it before this.

ARTICLE XVI - RECALL OF OFFICERS

B. Recall of any officer of the Association may also be accomplished in the following manner:

(1) If twenty-five percent (25%) of the Active members in good standing petition the Vice President-Administration/Secretary requesting a recall of any of said officers, it shall be the duty of the Vice -President-Administration/Secretary to circulate such a recall ballot to all Active members. If the Vice President-Administration/Secretary is the officer whose recall is being requested, it shall be the duty of the President to circulate such a recall ballot. Such ballots shall be returnable to the Election and Ballot Certification Board, and a reasonable deadline date shall be specified thereon. Recall shall require a two-thirds (2/3) vote of all Active members in good standing voting in such recall election. The Election and Ballot Certification Board shall certify the results of such recall election to the officers, the Board of Directors, and the membership. When such recall is accomplished, such recalled officer shall immediately be divested of all authority, prestige, and rights commensurate with his office.