Alpa Fdx
05-06-2007, 08:39 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
Someone over 60 you can trust
My view of this affair is this:
1. The rule change is going to happen, with or without ALPA, IPA, APA, or any other airline union involvement. Pure and simple.
2. The major congressional players who, in the past, have been proponents of leaving the Age 60 rule in effect have virtually all abandoned their past position and are now promoting the passage of the rule change.
3. ALPA, which has long been an opponent of changing the Age 60 rule is now being seen as acting in an obstructionist manner.
4. Although ALPA (imho) probably still doesn't want the retirement age to change, they realize that it's better to be on the train when it leaves the station (when the rule is changed), than to be stranded at trackside when the train pulls out, for places yet unknown. At least if they were on the train, they might have the ability to influence the trains destination somewhat.
5. FedEx is now probably the largest contributor to ALPA's coffers, and as such, should and probably does carry a lot of weight with ALPA National.
6. Our MEC chairman is (I believe) the longest standing member of his peer group at ALPA National.
7. FedEx has by far the most over-60 guys still "flying", so the company will have to develop a plan as to how to deal with them, once the rule changes. Traditional wisdom says that some of these guys will be allowed to return to a window seat that their seniority allows them to hold, while others (probably those closer to the new Age 65 cutoff) will be offered passover pay. My understanding of the FAA's term "current", is that someone with less than 2 years out of a seat, is still "current" in that seat, for training purposes. Unrealistic, probably. Some degree of retraining will need to occur, and some will make it and some, probably won't. Same as the rest of the population.
8. New aircraft will continue to show up on the property, thus facilitating upgrades and transitions, although as everyone realizes, at a slightly slower rate, due in part to the rule change.
9. Guys will continue to "medical out", both over 60 guys as well as under 60 guys.
10. Yes, this is a windfall for the older guys, but not just those guys who are already over 60. We have a lot of "younger" older guys, guys who have had previous careers and have been here only a few years. They too will have the opportunity for a longer career. In fact, they might be part of the "silent minority."
1. There's plenty more, but it's time to go cut the grass. For those of you advocating leaving ALPA, Don't. You'll still have to pay dues, but you'll have no say at all in the runnings of your union. At least now, you have the right to have your voice heard. Maybe not listened to, but at least heard. I believe ALPA is doing what they must to be part of the "solution", instead of being part of the "problem."
1. The rule change is going to happen, with or without ALPA, IPA, APA, or any other airline union involvement. Pure and simple.
2. The major congressional players who, in the past, have been proponents of leaving the Age 60 rule in effect have virtually all abandoned their past position and are now promoting the passage of the rule change.
3. ALPA, which has long been an opponent of changing the Age 60 rule is now being seen as acting in an obstructionist manner.
4. Although ALPA (imho) probably still doesn't want the retirement age to change, they realize that it's better to be on the train when it leaves the station (when the rule is changed), than to be stranded at trackside when the train pulls out, for places yet unknown. At least if they were on the train, they might have the ability to influence the trains destination somewhat.
5. FedEx is now probably the largest contributor to ALPA's coffers, and as such, should and probably does carry a lot of weight with ALPA National.
6. Our MEC chairman is (I believe) the longest standing member of his peer group at ALPA National.
7. FedEx has by far the most over-60 guys still "flying", so the company will have to develop a plan as to how to deal with them, once the rule changes. Traditional wisdom says that some of these guys will be allowed to return to a window seat that their seniority allows them to hold, while others (probably those closer to the new Age 65 cutoff) will be offered passover pay. My understanding of the FAA's term "current", is that someone with less than 2 years out of a seat, is still "current" in that seat, for training purposes. Unrealistic, probably. Some degree of retraining will need to occur, and some will make it and some, probably won't. Same as the rest of the population.
8. New aircraft will continue to show up on the property, thus facilitating upgrades and transitions, although as everyone realizes, at a slightly slower rate, due in part to the rule change.
9. Guys will continue to "medical out", both over 60 guys as well as under 60 guys.
10. Yes, this is a windfall for the older guys, but not just those guys who are already over 60. We have a lot of "younger" older guys, guys who have had previous careers and have been here only a few years. They too will have the opportunity for a longer career. In fact, they might be part of the "silent minority."
1. There's plenty more, but it's time to go cut the grass. For those of you advocating leaving ALPA, Don't. You'll still have to pay dues, but you'll have no say at all in the runnings of your union. At least now, you have the right to have your voice heard. Maybe not listened to, but at least heard. I believe ALPA is doing what they must to be part of the "solution", instead of being part of the "problem."
The only over 60 guy who's not drooling in his coffee.....and honestly....I hope to fly with you often over the next few years...of course that means you'll still be sittin sideways....;-)
05-06-2007, 08:45 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11
Posts: 315
[QUOTE=Laughing_Jakal;161136]
It is not a F/O vs Captain thing Huck....it is a "Short sighted greedy 'I got mine' bastard" vs everyone else thing.
(end quote)
Served up with a side of "I am MEC leadership and I will change the stance of the collective group no matter what the majority wants."
Sorry but I have lost all respect for our "leaders"
It is not a F/O vs Captain thing Huck....it is a "Short sighted greedy 'I got mine' bastard" vs everyone else thing.
(end quote)
Served up with a side of "I am MEC leadership and I will change the stance of the collective group no matter what the majority wants."
Sorry but I have lost all respect for our "leaders"
Last edited by BonesF15; 05-06-2007 at 01:02 PM. Reason: clarify quote
05-06-2007, 08:52 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
The UPS contract says:
Upon closing of a vacancy posting, crewmembers shall be
awarded the vacancies in accordance with their system
wide seniority and their preference bid, unless otherwise
excepted by this Agreement. (There is no exception that limits over-60's from exercising their seniority.)
awarded the vacancies in accordance with their system
wide seniority and their preference bid, unless otherwise
05-06-2007, 08:53 AM
#124
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
So can I stop paying my VEBA "tax" for the next five years?
After all, we negotiated this for the benefit of the guys 54 and older - the young guys will bear your healthcare costs on their shoulders. But now you get to work for another 5 years.
I want my VEBA money back, dammit!
(And yes, I know it's not a lot of money to me or anyone personally, but it's the principle)
After all, we negotiated this for the benefit of the guys 54 and older - the young guys will bear your healthcare costs on their shoulders. But now you get to work for another 5 years.
I want my VEBA money back, dammit!
(And yes, I know it's not a lot of money to me or anyone personally, but it's the principle)
05-06-2007, 09:12 AM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
[QUOTE=BonesF15;161146]
Don't we have a seniorty based system?
For all you new guys who were hired in the past 3 years, lets look at a little history lesson.
About 3 years ago (during contract negotitiations) , the company floated a proposal to the Union. "We will give you this pay raise and these work rules, provided that every NEW Hire Pilot from now on falls under a new retirement cash balance plan"
The Union rejected this, in other words for you newbies, the UNION protected you before you were hired. They could of said, who cares, these guys aren't even on property yet. I suppose they could have sold out new guys but that would not have been the right thing to do.
All the MEC Chair seems to be saying, is that if any rule change in AGE is retroactive, all pilots must have seniority rights when it comes to bidding.
In other words the Union will defend the seniorty rights of its members.
That is the senority system. Yes it could affect all of us in a negative way.............just like a furlough would, but it is the Right thing to do.
Would it be OK with all of you if the company wanted to furlough out of Senority..........i.e. the bottom 5% of each seat?
The Answer is NO, because Seniority dictates and it is defined in the contract.
If the Law changes and is prospective in Nature, then it will all be a moot point anyway.
It is not a F/O vs Captain thing Huck....it is a "Short sighted greedy 'I got mine' bastard" vs everyone else thing.
Served up with a side of "I am MEC leadership and I will change the stance of the collective group no matter what the majority wants."
Sorry but I have lost all respect for our "leaders"
Served up with a side of "I am MEC leadership and I will change the stance of the collective group no matter what the majority wants."
Sorry but I have lost all respect for our "leaders"
Don't we have a seniorty based system?
For all you new guys who were hired in the past 3 years, lets look at a little history lesson.
About 3 years ago (during contract negotitiations) , the company floated a proposal to the Union. "We will give you this pay raise and these work rules, provided that every NEW Hire Pilot from now on falls under a new retirement cash balance plan"
The Union rejected this, in other words for you newbies, the UNION protected you before you were hired. They could of said, who cares, these guys aren't even on property yet. I suppose they could have sold out new guys but that would not have been the right thing to do.
All the MEC Chair seems to be saying, is that if any rule change in AGE is retroactive, all pilots must have seniority rights when it comes to bidding.
In other words the Union will defend the seniorty rights of its members.
That is the senority system. Yes it could affect all of us in a negative way.............just like a furlough would, but it is the Right thing to do.
Would it be OK with all of you if the company wanted to furlough out of Senority..........i.e. the bottom 5% of each seat?
The Answer is NO, because Seniority dictates and it is defined in the contract.
If the Law changes and is prospective in Nature, then it will all be a moot point anyway.
05-06-2007, 09:22 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
Incorrect Quote
RedEye,
For the record, you quoted someone quoting me. It looks misleading. Also, I wasn't hired in the last three years.
For the record, you quoted someone quoting me. It looks misleading. Also, I wasn't hired in the last three years.
05-06-2007, 09:24 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
InHoffe...Hasselhof, whatever
Anyone see the video of David Hasselhof's 60th birthday party?
05-06-2007, 09:30 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Mark
05-06-2007, 09:56 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
What does the FedEx contract say?
The UPS contract says:
The UPS contract says:
Upon closing of a vacancy posting, crewmembers shall be
awarded the vacancies in accordance with their system
wide seniority and their preference bid, unless otherwise
excepted by this Agreement. (There is no exception that limits over-60's from exercising their seniority.)awarded the vacancies in accordance with their system
wide seniority and their preference bid, unless otherwise
05-06-2007, 10:06 AM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
The FedEx contract says about the same thing. The age 60 S/O have not lost their seniority number and bids are awarded on the basis of System Seniority. There is also a provision to bid to relieve an excess. Since the DC10 is going away any senior S/O can go any to any position his seniority can hold.
Mark
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