CLT Guy

PSA currently has 1100 pilots (1160 on the list, but several people that are already gone are still on the list). In that, there are about 150 that will not/can not flow.

The key, though, is attrition (attrition outside of the flow). We lost 28 last month. The norm lately has been 15-18 per month. Of those, quite a few were within a year of flowing. Delta has been taking a lot of our pilots lately. We have lost several senior pilots to JetBlue and Southwest as well. In the mid range, we have quite a few leaving to Spirit, Atlas, and a couple to Kalitta.

People that were hired 2 years ago move up more than 12 spots a month still.

Here's some math:

If you are #1200, and 150 are lifers/instructors that wont flow, that puts you at #1050.

Now, for simple math, lets estimate that we are flowing 8 a month, and 5 a month are leaving to other airlines as an absolute worst case scenario. (It will be 25-30 per month your first year, but less as you move up the list, so lets just say 5 a month)...

That means that you move up on average 13 spots a month. That is 6 and a half years.

PSA help

Part of the reason for the attrition is that in 2014, about half of our new hires were 7-9 year FO's from Endeavor. Most of them are approaching 1000 hours PIC, along with 7000+ total hours. They are motivated to move on, and are not waiting for the flow. They are getting picked up quickly.

We also hired about 100 former Comair pilots. Most are older, and not interested at all in moving on. They are here for a couple years, and will retire at 65. There are several sim and ground instructors on the seniority list that do not have medicals and are over 65.

No one was really surprised that our attrition last month (outside of the flow) was 28. It should stay in that range.

Nevada

You have pilots that can't flow?

CLT Guy

If they are over 65, or can not hold a medical. Ground and sim instructors.

They are still on the seniority list, as they are pilots and union members.

Nevada

Ahhh, gotcha. That makes sense.

FlyyGuyy

We are not flowing 100 a year. 60. We can flow 100 per year based upon staffing. IF we can staff up significantly, accept the remaining transfers, and not park any 200s we can improve our flow to 100 per year.

But the metric that allows for this is measured quarterly. So best case scenario we might be capable of flowing that number 3q next year.

All three of the WOs are guilty of inflating their flow numbers and times.

I am a early 2014 hire and I imagine I would flow in another 3-4 years. Making my flow time 6 years. I'm obviously active in going elsewhere...

Between my DOH and the end of the 2015 there were close to 900 people hired. Predicting outside attrition is a tough one, however, the company and ALPA both think 20ish% (or so they told us that last year) annually, but that is all across the list not just from the top.

Regardless, I think the flow is a nice back pocket tool in case I don't get picked up elsewhere. But to rely on it alone is foolish.

Shiner

The SAP sounds great. We don't have the same thing at Envoy. We do have a trip trade window every month. You won't get a holiday off out of it, but you can make your sequence more commutable, pick up or drop time, or move some days off around.

Are first year guys holding round 1 lines in CLT (your only hub base)? I think PSA has the best QOL for guys that live in or have an easy commute to one of your outstation bases, but let's not pretend like someone commuting to CLT will have a great first year.




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chrisreedrules

Actually CLT seems pretty junior for a build up / round 2 line right now. And some round 2 lines have holidays off. I'm not sure how it looks for a round 1 line holder though.

PSA help

May 2016 hires are holding lines in Charlotte for September. So, with training being about 3 months, about 2 months of reserve in CLT right now.

Shiner

I've been at Envoy 3.5 years and commute from west of the Rockies. I've been NYC, DFW, and ORD based. I've never come in a day early, or had to stay a day late, with the exception of the 6 weeks after IOE when I took red eyes to get to NYC before being awarded DFW.

I've posted this before, but here goes again. I don't agree with the pre assigned RAP's for reserves. I hope we win the arbitration and it gets changed. But, after a couple months building seniority, you can proffer out of the early starts. You won't have to come in a day early if you proffer for a late trip or late airport standby. Same goes for line holders. I don't bid around commutability because the trip trade window allows me to trade every sequence into a commutable one.

I know guys don't like putting this out there because they think it hurts our leverage with the company. The company doesn't care. They need new hires and complaining about the commutability of the schedules hasn't made them change anything.

I think the company should improve the schedules because they want to make this a good place to work. Based on the union scheduling committee email last month, we should expect improvements. But let's not pretend like we're all coming in a day early and leaving a day late every week. It just doesn't happen very much.


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