New pilot, big decisions
03-08-2016, 11:40 PM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 5
New pilot, big decisions
Hey all,
This is my first post, and am looking for some major advice from those that are living my lifelong dream of becoming a professional aviator.
My mom was a flight attendant for American for many, many years, and I grew up taking flights with her at times, and met a lot of people in the industry growing up. Loved airshows, aviation history, especially WW1 and WW2 and the idea of being a commercial pilot has always been a dream.
Fast forward to my current age of 27, and I don't know what it is, but I've reached an age where I've confirmed that there is no better time than now, and I am committed to going after my dream 100%. Since I've been 17 I've had to support myself completely. Come from a rather modest single parent household, no extended family and the only life I've known since a year abroad in Germany in high school, is that of grinding work(queue the violin). I had always planned on pursuing higher education when I was 18 through my early 20s, but it never seemed achievable and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life, so I didn't want to be buried in inevitable student debt, when I really had no idea of what I really wanted.
I now have never been more certain of anything, I want to be a pilot, and the idea has been one of obsession.
About a month ago I FINALLY started a PPL here in Reno, Nevada, and I'm absolutely hooked. It's challenging, rewarding, and exciting. I'm working 2 jobs to afford the program, but I'm glad to finally be doing it.
So, now for a giant question.
I've done a lot of time thinking and research and asking pilots I meet at work etc., but I want to commit to next steps.
Option A. ATP Flight school fast-track program at one of a few different locations I'm looking at. I like the idea of getting my Instrument through CFII, will receive loads of steady flight training, and will have all of my certifications etc. Upon graduating I would plan on building my hours etc as a CFI. I love the idea of a structured program that would take less than a year what would normally take 2-4.
Option B. I'm also looking into an aviation program such as one provided through University of North Dakota (UND). I understand that to be considered by a major airline, my ultimate goal, a 4 year degree is essentially required, which ATP would not provide me with. UND would not provide me with all of the certifications and ratings that ATP would either. But, this would provide me with a solid education, but I don't know what kind of employment I would be able to find upon graduating and I'm assuming that I'd still have to earn my Commercial rating.
These are my two considerations... I'm learning towards ATP as I want to really start flying ASAP after my PPL, but a lack of a traditional education will probably severely limit my potential with what I want to do... Both options would put me severely in debt and would limit my capacity to earn a paycheck. I certainly understand that new pilots make relatively very little.
If you made it through this post, I really appreciate it, and I welcome any feedback. Thank you.
This is my first post, and am looking for some major advice from those that are living my lifelong dream of becoming a professional aviator.
My mom was a flight attendant for American for many, many years, and I grew up taking flights with her at times, and met a lot of people in the industry growing up. Loved airshows, aviation history, especially WW1 and WW2 and the idea of being a commercial pilot has always been a dream.
Fast forward to my current age of 27, and I don't know what it is, but I've reached an age where I've confirmed that there is no better time than now, and I am committed to going after my dream 100%. Since I've been 17 I've had to support myself completely. Come from a rather modest single parent household, no extended family and the only life I've known since a year abroad in Germany in high school, is that of grinding work(queue the violin). I had always planned on pursuing higher education when I was 18 through my early 20s, but it never seemed achievable and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life, so I didn't want to be buried in inevitable student debt, when I really had no idea of what I really wanted.
I now have never been more certain of anything, I want to be a pilot, and the idea has been one of obsession.
About a month ago I FINALLY started a PPL here in Reno, Nevada, and I'm absolutely hooked. It's challenging, rewarding, and exciting. I'm working 2 jobs to afford the program, but I'm glad to finally be doing it.
So, now for a giant question.
I've done a lot of time thinking and research and asking pilots I meet at work etc., but I want to commit to next steps.
Option A. ATP Flight school fast-track program at one of a few different locations I'm looking at. I like the idea of getting my Instrument through CFII, will receive loads of steady flight training, and will have all of my certifications etc. Upon graduating I would plan on building my hours etc as a CFI. I love the idea of a structured program that would take less than a year what would normally take 2-4.
Option B. I'm also looking into an aviation program such as one provided through University of North Dakota (UND). I understand that to be considered by a major airline, my ultimate goal, a 4 year degree is essentially required, which ATP would not provide me with. UND would not provide me with all of the certifications and ratings that ATP would either. But, this would provide me with a solid education, but I don't know what kind of employment I would be able to find upon graduating and I'm assuming that I'd still have to earn my Commercial rating.
These are my two considerations... I'm learning towards ATP as I want to really start flying ASAP after my PPL, but a lack of a traditional education will probably severely limit my potential with what I want to do... Both options would put me severely in debt and would limit my capacity to earn a paycheck. I certainly understand that new pilots make relatively very little.
If you made it through this post, I really appreciate it, and I welcome any feedback. Thank you.
03-08-2016, 11:48 PM
#2
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 5
New pilot, big decisions
Hey all,
This is my first post, and am looking for some major advice from those that are living my lifelong dream of becoming a professional aviator.
My mom was a flight attendant for American for many, many years, and I grew up taking flights with her at times, and met a lot of people in the industry growing up. Loved airshows, aviation history, especially WW1 and WW2 and the idea of being a commercial pilot has always been a dream.
Fast forward to my current age of 27, and I don't know what it is, but I've reached an age where I've confirmed that there is no better time than now, and I am committed to going after my dream 100%. Since I've been 17 I've had to support myself completely. Come from a rather modest single parent household, no extended family and the only life I've known since a year abroad in Germany in high school, is that of grinding work(queue the violin). I had always planned on pursuing higher education when I was 18 through my early 20s, but it never seemed achievable and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life, so I didn't want to be buried in inevitable student debt, when I really had no idea of what I really wanted.
I now have never been more certain of anything, I want to be a pilot, and the idea has been one of obsession.
About a month ago I FINALLY started a PPL here in Reno, Nevada, and I'm absolutely hooked. It's challenging, rewarding, and exciting. I'm working 2 jobs to afford the program, but I'm glad to finally be doing it.
So, now for a giant question.
I've done a lot of time thinking and research and asking pilots I meet at work etc., but I want to commit to next steps.
Option A. ATP Flight school fast-track program at one of a few different locations I'm looking at. I like the idea of getting my Instrument through CFII, will receive loads of steady flight training, and will have all of my certifications etc. Upon graduating I would plan on building my hours etc as a CFI. I love the idea of a structured program that would take less than a year what would normally take 2-4.
Option B. I'm also looking into an aviation program such as one provided through University of North Dakota (UND). I understand that to be considered by a major airline, my ultimate goal, a 4 year degree is essentially required, which ATP would not provide me with. UND would not provide me with all of the certifications and ratings that ATP would either. But, this would provide me with a solid education, but I don't know what kind of employment I would be able to find upon graduating and I'm assuming that I'd still have to earn my Commercial rating.
These are my two considerations... I'm learning towards ATP as I want to really start flying ASAP after my PPL, but a lack of a traditional education will probably severely limit my potential with what I want to do... Both options would put me severely in debt and would limit my capacity to earn a paycheck. I certainly understand that new pilots make relatively very little.
If you made it through this post, I really appreciate it, and I welcome any feedback. Thank you.
This is my first post, and am looking for some major advice from those that are living my lifelong dream of becoming a professional aviator.
My mom was a flight attendant for American for many, many years, and I grew up taking flights with her at times, and met a lot of people in the industry growing up. Loved airshows, aviation history, especially WW1 and WW2 and the idea of being a commercial pilot has always been a dream.
Fast forward to my current age of 27, and I don't know what it is, but I've reached an age where I've confirmed that there is no better time than now, and I am committed to going after my dream 100%. Since I've been 17 I've had to support myself completely. Come from a rather modest single parent household, no extended family and the only life I've known since a year abroad in Germany in high school, is that of grinding work(queue the violin). I had always planned on pursuing higher education when I was 18 through my early 20s, but it never seemed achievable and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life, so I didn't want to be buried in inevitable student debt, when I really had no idea of what I really wanted.
I now have never been more certain of anything, I want to be a pilot, and the idea has been one of obsession.
About a month ago I FINALLY started a PPL here in Reno, Nevada, and I'm absolutely hooked. It's challenging, rewarding, and exciting. I'm working 2 jobs to afford the program, but I'm glad to finally be doing it.
So, now for a giant question.
I've done a lot of time thinking and research and asking pilots I meet at work etc., but I want to commit to next steps.
Option A. ATP Flight school fast-track program at one of a few different locations I'm looking at. I like the idea of getting my Instrument through CFII, will receive loads of steady flight training, and will have all of my certifications etc. Upon graduating I would plan on building my hours etc as a CFI. I love the idea of a structured program that would take less than a year what would normally take 2-4.
Option B. I'm also looking into an aviation program such as one provided through University of North Dakota (UND). I understand that to be considered by a major airline, my ultimate goal, a 4 year degree is essentially required, which ATP would not provide me with. UND would not provide me with all of the certifications and ratings that ATP would either. But, this would provide me with a solid education, but I don't know what kind of employment I would be able to find upon graduating and I'm assuming that I'd still have to earn my Commercial rating.
These are my two considerations... I'm learning towards ATP as I want to really start flying ASAP after my PPL, but a lack of a traditional education will probably severely limit my potential with what I want to do... Both options would put me severely in debt and would limit my capacity to earn a paycheck. I certainly understand that new pilots make relatively very little.
If you made it through this post, I really appreciate it, and I welcome any feedback. Thank you.
03-09-2016, 05:13 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 302
You sound like me, only I started when I was 20. It's good that you made the descion to change, but consider the road you will be traveling. What do you do for a living now? Obtaining your certificate and building hours to 1500 could take 2-4 years, and during that time, the income coming in will be low. Also keep in mind, unless you are 100% sure you want to teach, its hard to get a job after you get your commercial. Are you willing to move from home/travel? As far as which school to go to, I'm going to be biased a bit, but I would recommend going to a Flight School first then college later. The reason is, you need exposure and to obtain all your ratings as quickly as possible. There are jobs out there, and Regional Airlines are giving bonuses. When you reach 250 hours and Commercial level, you can work on your degree either online or part time classes while you work as a CFI or any other job you choose. If you choose an Aviation major, you can transfer up to 30 credits from your flight ratings. A degree outside of Aviation would be a good idea, I recommend Computer Science or Accounting for a solid plan B. As far as schools, I'm going to reccomend Aviator College, thats where I went, and they get you done atva fair price. ATP is expensive, and you will save more at Aviator. There are also other schools in Florida that are more affordable. Do your research. Good luck.
03-09-2016, 05:21 AM
#4
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,320
Welcome to the forum!
You need both; a four year degree and all the ratings.
UND will give you both, but at a very steep cost, and with a degree in aviation (no thanks). Further, I wouldn't want to be a 27 year old freshman at UND.
ATP's is very expensive. There are cheaper alternatives out there. I'd recommend looking at some of them.
My recommendation is to pay as much out of pocket as possible for your ratings. If you can afford this at an accelerated school, awesome. If not, consider getting your ratings under Part 61 while earning your degree.
If you are dead set on an accelerated program, and can accept some of the debt, you'll land a regional job sooner, but you'll still need the degree.
For that, I'd recommend a solid, regionally accredited, online program that you can do while working as a CFI and regional pilot.
You need both; a four year degree and all the ratings.
UND will give you both, but at a very steep cost, and with a degree in aviation (no thanks). Further, I wouldn't want to be a 27 year old freshman at UND.
ATP's is very expensive. There are cheaper alternatives out there. I'd recommend looking at some of them.
My recommendation is to pay as much out of pocket as possible for your ratings. If you can afford this at an accelerated school, awesome. If not, consider getting your ratings under Part 61 while earning your degree.
If you are dead set on an accelerated program, and can accept some of the debt, you'll land a regional job sooner, but you'll still need the degree.
For that, I'd recommend a solid, regionally accredited, online program that you can do while working as a CFI and regional pilot.
03-09-2016, 05:23 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 352
Have you considered a middle ground such as Tarrant County College?
https://www.tccd.edu/Courses_and_Pro...nal_Pilot.html
This offers an associates degree and pilot training at a more affordable rate. They also have a 2+2 program with UNT so you could get an affordable bachelors.
https://www.tccd.edu/Courses_and_Pro...nal_Pilot.html
This offers an associates degree and pilot training at a more affordable rate. They also have a 2+2 program with UNT so you could get an affordable bachelors.
03-09-2016, 06:46 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 548
Considering your age, ATP is a no brainer if you can come up with the money or finance it. Study your a$$ off and turn it into an IP job for ATP in a matter of months. Start taking community college classes once you start flight instructing and roll that into online classes after you get a regional job. You will have a BS Degree by the time you are ready to apply to a Major. Good Luck!
03-09-2016, 09:21 AM
#8
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 5
Do regionals hire without a degree? From a few nights of restless browsing on this forum, trying to figure out the route I wanna go, I've seen ATP is a very polarizing topic, where the vast majority it seems tend to stray people away. Works for some though... Yes, I do not wanna be in debt for 10 years or so upon finishing ATP but what appeals to me is, throwing my life towards aviation. Currently I make around 60 in a retail job I've worked my way up in, and a second part-time job. I have 2 days a week that I'm doing PPL training with, but I'm trying to figure out an affordable way to complete more flight hours, sooner than later, and not submitting to poverty.
03-09-2016, 09:26 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: E-175
Posts: 458
You do not need a degree for a regional job. You need an ATP and a pulse. If you want to move on to a legacy, or a major, yes, you will need that to be competitive. I did a sort of fast track program at a local flight school, became a CFI. Right about then I started with my online degree. I wouldnt do both a fast track flight school and a degree at the same time. You just wont have the time.
03-09-2016, 10:06 AM
#10
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 5
Thanks for the replies.
For schooling, I'm looking into an online program through WGU, online university that is affordable, and I'm looking into a 4 yr and majoring in business. Is this something I should consider? Would the airlines deem this as a less appropriate degree? I'm considering this, maybe working my ass off for the next year - 2 years and contribute as much as my personal finances towards a program like ATP. Is ATP really that expensive for what you're getting? Avgas is expensive, planes are expensive, instruction is expensive. With instrument through CFII are there other quality programs out there that are drastically less expensive?
I feel like anyway I look at it, I'm looking at at least 55k+.
For schooling, I'm looking into an online program through WGU, online university that is affordable, and I'm looking into a 4 yr and majoring in business. Is this something I should consider? Would the airlines deem this as a less appropriate degree? I'm considering this, maybe working my ass off for the next year - 2 years and contribute as much as my personal finances towards a program like ATP. Is ATP really that expensive for what you're getting? Avgas is expensive, planes are expensive, instruction is expensive. With instrument through CFII are there other quality programs out there that are drastically less expensive?
I feel like anyway I look at it, I'm looking at at least 55k+.
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