SWA or AA
12-18-2015, 05:11 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Posts: 500
The mythos that exists around SW - while it may have been true at one time - just doesn't exist today. It is just another airline with the same labor/management drama that exists at every other airline.
Trips are not commutable, so if you intend to commute I would definitely look elsewhere. The SW CBA may have at one time offered industry leading flexibility, but today they lag the industry due to the fact that you can not drop trips, and trading with the company is extremely limited due to lack of reserve coverage and duty-to-cover limits. Trading with other pilots is available, but if you are junior not many will want to trade with you or take your trip.
Major contractual deficiencies exist in little areas like bidding for training (you can't), vacation (senior guys bid all of the desirable weeks and use them as currency to trade for what they want), crew meals (none even on transcontinental trips or international turns), parking (none), uniforms (none), etc.
Vacation overlap is one positive area. Trips that touch vacation are dropped, often with partial pay. It's easy to create three weeks of vacation from one.
Do your research and make the best business decision you can with the information that you have. Don't decide based on some romantic fantasy about "Herb's airline". This isn't Herb's airline anymore.
Way better than any regional, don't get me wrong. Love my job, love my coworkers, but if AA called I'd be hard pressed not to go. (And I was formerly a USAir furloughed guy, so it pains me to say that!)
Trips are not commutable, so if you intend to commute I would definitely look elsewhere. The SW CBA may have at one time offered industry leading flexibility, but today they lag the industry due to the fact that you can not drop trips, and trading with the company is extremely limited due to lack of reserve coverage and duty-to-cover limits. Trading with other pilots is available, but if you are junior not many will want to trade with you or take your trip.
Major contractual deficiencies exist in little areas like bidding for training (you can't), vacation (senior guys bid all of the desirable weeks and use them as currency to trade for what they want), crew meals (none even on transcontinental trips or international turns), parking (none), uniforms (none), etc.
Vacation overlap is one positive area. Trips that touch vacation are dropped, often with partial pay. It's easy to create three weeks of vacation from one.
Do your research and make the best business decision you can with the information that you have. Don't decide based on some romantic fantasy about "Herb's airline". This isn't Herb's airline anymore.
Way better than any regional, don't get me wrong. Love my job, love my coworkers, but if AA called I'd be hard pressed not to go. (And I was formerly a USAir furloughed guy, so it pains me to say that!)
12-18-2015, 05:23 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,482
A post brought up furloughs. The retirement bubble numbers are crazy. AA could furlough 20% and stay at that reduced size. A guy hired tomorrow would be furloughed until late 2019 and upgrade (junior CA system wide) in early 2025.
No one has ever beaten Father Time. No one.
No one has ever beaten Father Time. No one.
12-19-2015, 11:31 AM
#53
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: Poser
Posts: 22
A post brought up furloughs. The retirement bubble numbers are crazy. AA could furlough 20% and stay at that reduced size. A guy hired tomorrow would be furloughed until late 2019 and upgrade (junior CA system wide) in early 2025.
No one has ever beaten Father Time. No one.
No one has ever beaten Father Time. No one.
12-22-2015, 06:14 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 157
12-23-2015, 04:19 AM
#56
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 20
Trips are not commutable, so if you intend to commute I would definitely look elsewhere. The SW CBA may have at one time offered industry leading flexibility, but today they lag the industry due to the fact that you can not drop trips, and trading with the company is extremely limited due to lack of reserve coverage and duty-to-cover limits.
Thanks.
12-23-2015, 04:57 AM
#57
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: B737 FO, C-130T TAC
Posts: 42
Far from an expert so I'll let someone else explain the trade/drop/reserve rules stuff. You will have either an AM or PM schedule. The AM trips start early such that there will be very little chance of you commuting in the morning of the trip in time for your show, thus you will have to commute up the day before and crashpad or hotel for a night. The trip will likely end early enough on the last day that you can catch a flight home after depending on your commute. The PM are the opposite, you can probably commute in to start the trip but it's probably going to end so late that there will be no flights for you to get home and you'll be crashpad/hotel that night.
12-23-2015, 06:31 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,650
I have done it for over a year and a half, all on reserve. It depends on where you commute from, where you are based, and what you bid. Here is the low down on swa's industry lagging reserve:
You have to be in domicile with your phone on and within two hours of report at the start of your RAP no matter what. Doesn't matter if you have a trip awarded the day prior that reports in 6 hours, they want to be able to contact you and change it.
You almost always fly on reserve. It is used to cover open time trips and sick calls among other things. Even if you put "pass" in your preference, you will be used the vast majority of the time. It goes junior for that reason.
At the end of your trip on reserve, you are still on the hook for more flying. You can be pulled off of your trip at any time while on reserve and you will not necessarily be paid the same as a line holder.
Here is my experience (obviously way different than Zaps):
I commute OKC-HOU. There are plenty of flights, some early, some late. I bid PM reserve so that I could commute in the morning and many PM trips ended prior to the last Houston to OKC flight in the evening, effectively making PM reserve about 50 percent or better commutable for me.
I now hold a blank line that is part reserve. I was able to elitt this month into a 100 percent commutable line.
Again, this doesn't happen with all commute cities and all bases, but there are a few that work like this. The reason I bid Houston instead of Dallas is for this reason. Dallas is a 3 hour drive from my house in no traffic (so basically never), but Houston is a quick flight and is a much better commuter base than Dallas. Understand this is all subject to change. Today's awesome commute (and mine truly is this month) is next month's commute from hell. Just ask anyone who commutes from San Antonio. When southwest decides your city isn't making them much money, they will put that lift somewhere else.
If you want an idea of what your commute will look like, take a look on passrider or another website and look how early and late the flights run. If you have early flights from where you live and late flights to where you live, you can bid PMs and commute the same day at least part of the time. If not, most bid AMs and get in the night before, allowing them to commute home on the last day.
Also, if you live in a city where there are a lot of commuters, beware. Places like Atlanta, Nashville, Orlando, and Pensacola are noted for their difficulties in getting on the airplane.
Your commute (assuming you have to commute) can make this job fairly easy or a nightmare. I try to take a zen approach to the difficult days (even I have them) and try to keep smiling. Some guys get eaten up by it and it consumes their every thought and action.
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