Going Expat Hurt My Career
08-03-2015, 12:23 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 503
Going Expat Hurt My Career
Hello,
I have a interview with one of the Middle East carriers. I've read and understood everything I'm getting myself into, but my biggest concern is if I jump ship, will I get black listed from US airlines?
It seems there's a strong divide between pilots at the majors; the union people all say I will not get hired. The folks who want to separate from the union say do what's best for you.
I understand ALPAs view on the ME3, and how much they lobby against the ME3 expanding.
Thoughts on this?
I have a interview with one of the Middle East carriers. I've read and understood everything I'm getting myself into, but my biggest concern is if I jump ship, will I get black listed from US airlines?
It seems there's a strong divide between pilots at the majors; the union people all say I will not get hired. The folks who want to separate from the union say do what's best for you.
I understand ALPAs view on the ME3, and how much they lobby against the ME3 expanding.
Thoughts on this?
08-03-2015, 12:30 PM
#2
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
You would be working for a company--pretty much working for a country--that is ignoring its international obligations in an attempt to utterly destroy the US airline industry.
you do the math.
you do the math.
08-03-2015, 12:33 PM
#3
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 747 left
Posts: 15
I agree with what this guy said. If you go and then decide to come back, you may have to fly for a regional for a couple years and then try to apply for a legacy.. Good luck
08-03-2015, 12:41 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 387
With all due respect, how about highlighting the fact the creation of regional airlines has already destroyed our industry. Anytime a pilot is making $20-40k a year flying paying passengers is a crime in itself. We should be fighting a war on our own turf to stop poverty wages flying passenger jets.
08-03-2015, 12:45 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,914
With all due respect, how about highlighting the fact the creation of regional airlines has already destroyed our industry. Anytime a pilot is making $20-40k a year flying paying passengers is a crime in itself. We should be fighting a war on our own turf to stop poverty wages flying passenger jets.
You won't get blacklisted on airlines here. Delta, United, JetBlue, and Virgin America have hired American pilots from Emirates and Qatar. The ones trying to get you to believe otherwise are the ones on the ME3 bandwagon.
08-03-2015, 12:47 PM
#6
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Change "international" to "domestic" and you just described the regional industry from post 9/11 2002-2008.
08-03-2015, 12:51 PM
#7
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Posts: 1,422
t seems there's a strong divide between pilots at the majors; the union people all say I will not get hired. The folks who want to separate from the union say do what's best for you.
I understand ALPAs view on the ME3, and how much they lobby against the ME3 expanding.
I understand ALPAs view on the ME3, and how much they lobby against the ME3 expanding.
I agree with FlowpayFO. I wish alpa would put half the effort into the RJ industry that they put into the ME3.
Tell your friends at the legacy carriers that if they're so concerned, they should get you an interview. Until that happens, I'd enjoy the ME.
08-03-2015, 01:08 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 93
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the union thugs blacklisting you though it isn't entirely impossible. If you search the forums on the subject you will realize that those spouting the blacklist scenario are the same 5 nut jobs who actually know very little about flying overseas. What you should do is ask yourself what you hope to accomplish. If your goal is to be hired by a U.S. major as soon as possible (that's what mine would be right now if I were younger), is moving overseas going to get you there?(moving, not going - the ME3 are NOT commuter friendly) You will be committed for at least a few years and in that time, I would guess that things will be getting easier for folks coming from the regionals. Also, don't underestimate the difficulty of extricating yourself from there when you decide it's time to go.
Is a widebody command what your looking for? Be very careful! The chances at Emirates of a quick upgrade are probably nil, no matter what they tell you. At the other 2, it's probably better but look at the number of planes, pilots and firm orders. Does the airline have definite plans to double in size in the next few years? Don't go by how long it's taking for people to upgrade now. That's what the recruiters will tell you because it's not "exactly" a lie. What do you suppose a widebody command will do for you? It will be of limited value if you're coming back to the U.S.
If you're tired of the crappy conditions at the regionals, the truth is that they aren't much better in the Middle East. Others will be able to give you a better idea of the situation at QR and EY but I can tell you that at EK, they will work you like a slave (literally).
Probably the best advice I could give you is to do your homework. When I was there, the people who were happiest were the ones who came with their eyes open. They knew the pros and cons and made an adult decision. The ones who came with stars in their eyes and unrealistic expectations were the unhappiest after 1 year. Don't just listen to what you want to hear. Search out the negatives and even if delivered with a dose of melodrama, realize that there is truth to much of it. I really think that the time when the ME3 made good career sense for some U.S. pilots has passed. Don't go there because it was a good choice 15 years ago. The industry has changed (and will continue to change).
Is a widebody command what your looking for? Be very careful! The chances at Emirates of a quick upgrade are probably nil, no matter what they tell you. At the other 2, it's probably better but look at the number of planes, pilots and firm orders. Does the airline have definite plans to double in size in the next few years? Don't go by how long it's taking for people to upgrade now. That's what the recruiters will tell you because it's not "exactly" a lie. What do you suppose a widebody command will do for you? It will be of limited value if you're coming back to the U.S.
If you're tired of the crappy conditions at the regionals, the truth is that they aren't much better in the Middle East. Others will be able to give you a better idea of the situation at QR and EY but I can tell you that at EK, they will work you like a slave (literally).
Probably the best advice I could give you is to do your homework. When I was there, the people who were happiest were the ones who came with their eyes open. They knew the pros and cons and made an adult decision. The ones who came with stars in their eyes and unrealistic expectations were the unhappiest after 1 year. Don't just listen to what you want to hear. Search out the negatives and even if delivered with a dose of melodrama, realize that there is truth to much of it. I really think that the time when the ME3 made good career sense for some U.S. pilots has passed. Don't go there because it was a good choice 15 years ago. The industry has changed (and will continue to change).
Last edited by Gillegan; 08-03-2015 at 01:18 PM.
08-03-2015, 01:08 PM
#9
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Posts: 1,255
Heck, here at JetBlue, we have a chief who used to work for Emirates.
08-03-2015, 01:18 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 503
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the union thugs blacklisting you though it isnt entirely impossible. What you should do is ask yourself what you hope to accomplish. If your goal is to be hired by a U.S. major as soon as possible (that's what mine would be right now if I were younger), is moving overseas going to get you there?(moving, not going - the ME3 are NOT commuter friendly) You will be committed for at least a few years and in that time, I would guess that things will be getting easier for folks coming from the regionals. Also, don't underestimate the difficulty of extricating yourself from there when you decide it's time to go.
Is a widebody command what your looking for? Be very careful! The chances at Emirates of a quick upgrade are probably nil, no matter what they tell you. At the other 2, it's probably better but look at the number of planes, pilots and firm orders. Does the airline have definite plans to double in size in the next few years? Don't go by how long it's taking for people to upgrade now. That's what the recruiters will tell you because it's not "exactly" a lie. What do you suppose a widebody command will do for you? It will be of limited value if you're coming back to the U.S.
If you're tired of the crappy conditions at the regionals, the truth is that they aren't much better in the Middle East. Others will be able to give you a better idea of the situation at QR and EY but I can tell you that at EK, they will work you like a slave (literally).
Probably the best advice I could give you is to do your homework. When I was there, the people who were happiest were the ones who came with their eyes open. They knew the pros and cons and made an adult decision. The ones who came with stars in their eyes and unrealistic expectations were the unhappiest after 1 year. Don't just listen to what you want to hear. Search out the negatives and even if delivered with a dose of melodrama, realize that there is truth to much of it. I really think that the time when the ME3 made good career sense for some U.S. pilots has passed. Don't go there because it was a good choice 15 years ago. The industry has changed (and will continue to change).
Is a widebody command what your looking for? Be very careful! The chances at Emirates of a quick upgrade are probably nil, no matter what they tell you. At the other 2, it's probably better but look at the number of planes, pilots and firm orders. Does the airline have definite plans to double in size in the next few years? Don't go by how long it's taking for people to upgrade now. That's what the recruiters will tell you because it's not "exactly" a lie. What do you suppose a widebody command will do for you? It will be of limited value if you're coming back to the U.S.
If you're tired of the crappy conditions at the regionals, the truth is that they aren't much better in the Middle East. Others will be able to give you a better idea of the situation at QR and EY but I can tell you that at EK, they will work you like a slave (literally).
Probably the best advice I could give you is to do your homework. When I was there, the people who were happiest were the ones who came with their eyes open. They knew the pros and cons and made an adult decision. The ones who came with stars in their eyes and unrealistic expectations were the unhappiest after 1 year. Don't just listen to what you want to hear. Search out the negatives and even if delivered with a dose of melodrama, realize that there is truth to much of it. I really think that the time when the ME3 made good career sense for some U.S. pilots has passed. Don't go there because it was a good choice 15 years ago. The industry has changed (and will continue to change).
I think the regional model has hurt US aviation more than foreign carriers ever could. Like others say, why won't ALPA put as much cash torwards regional pilot wages as they do fighting NAI or the ME3, the industry wouldn't have this problem.
But as many of you are aware, aviation is driven by politics, and some pilots tend to get butt hurt if you don't follow or do as they say.
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