College student looking to become pilot
06-05-2015, 08:12 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,272
It's not like you spend a decade making $30k a year. Pay sucks at first and quickly escalates.
Not sure why people compare this job to others. Go be a programmer then. I'd rather make more money, with more time off, in a completely low stress environment. Personally. Instant gratification is generally not better long term.
06-05-2015, 03:34 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: Stick Monkey
Posts: 300
Since it sounds like you're sincerely looking for some guidance, here's my 2 cents : enjoy getting your education, DO NOT get anything related to "aviation" (switch degrees from a technical computer science field, for instance) focus on the gpa in case grad school is something you want in the future, and enjoy flying for fun. I'm a regional pilot who came from a different professional background and have a non aviation degree as well. I've met many a miserable FO or Captain who is not a happy camper, and it won't be easy for them to transition to another field since they have no diversity of education.
It may be cool now to you to think you can fly that sleek, "shiny Jet" but never forget it is just an asset to a company, and the management's job is and always will be to get the lowest labor cost and most efficiency out of the asset. When you get years in to the flying and realize wow, I'm gone from a normal home life pretty much at THE VERY LEAST 50 percent of the month, you see how abnormal and indeed dysfunctional your existence can get. You start missing your kids, have to work on their birthdays, wear down your spouse and family with your constant absences, and miss what a healthy person can consider the greatest joys in life : bonding with loved ones. Yes, the flying is fun and it's neat to see different cities. But guess what? Most pilots don't travel on their off time - they're sick of it. It really is too much of a good thing
Now yes, I've tried to work on projects on the side while working, with all that "great down time at the overnight and between legs" and I will say it's EXTREMELY difficult. Many will say "oh no, I do it all the time" but my experience is simply this- flying the line is a fully engulfing experience, much more so than sitting in the office starting at a computer screen, and your attention has to shift constantly to that which requires your most urgent attention. Traffic, check lists, approach plates, calling ops, calculating duty limits, watching the wing tips, double checking systems are in the right state, etc, and to walk away fatigued is a normal thing, even for a long term pro at it. To then constantly sit down and work at some completely unrelated profession in a dedicated tempo is extremely trying and burning the candle at both ends. You are more likely to be pooped out and unable to enjoy both fully than if you chose one or the other, and just dabbled in the unchosen.
The industry is saturated, and it's not going to stop having it's cycles, as great as it looks now. You could enjoy a great experience flying Cirrus sr22s when you like, and all the freedom aviation has to offer, and buy first class tickets any where you wanted and still have many many hundreds of thousands of dollars more in your account in 20-30 years than if you go the airline route, ancilliary profession or not.
Yes, many of us regional bubbas will make it to a Major airline. But this will be the exception to the norm, and it really is more of a lottery than meritocracy. With aircraft getting larger, and hence the same number of pilots to fly more passengers, and things like NASA funded single pilot airline operations research already many years in, there will continue to be regression in the dream that is based on a 20th century nostalgia. Who knows- maybe it will start with FAA approval of something like "121 cargo ops under 3 hours are single pilot approved with a super dispatcher/FO constantly monitoring the flight and at the ready to take over if needed" or something even more daring and only expand more as we see how safe it is in practice, technology's advance will be something we will constantly have to fight and feel threatened by not unlike factory workers in the US watching robotic arms take over their jobs. This is a much more likely scenario, than the yay we're all happily and securely employed in a very steady industry with a single carrier that will never downsize or file bankruptcy ever again. People do leave the industry every year, but not enough. Enough - but please, heavily consider enjoying success in a different profession and using your excess freedom and financial stability to get that type rating for fun (737s can be had for 7k ish) and know you're far, far better off in so many ways if you didn't walk in the door then have to start over again later on in life, which is a high likelihood here. One of the most impressive things I have heard was from a senior captain - no where else in the "professional world do you have to risk losing your job 4 times a year. 2 medicals a year for a captain over 40, and a line check as well as recurrent. Never mind making a mistake, as well all do, and getting violated. Here's my 2 cents - enjoy
It may be cool now to you to think you can fly that sleek, "shiny Jet" but never forget it is just an asset to a company, and the management's job is and always will be to get the lowest labor cost and most efficiency out of the asset. When you get years in to the flying and realize wow, I'm gone from a normal home life pretty much at THE VERY LEAST 50 percent of the month, you see how abnormal and indeed dysfunctional your existence can get. You start missing your kids, have to work on their birthdays, wear down your spouse and family with your constant absences, and miss what a healthy person can consider the greatest joys in life : bonding with loved ones. Yes, the flying is fun and it's neat to see different cities. But guess what? Most pilots don't travel on their off time - they're sick of it. It really is too much of a good thing
Now yes, I've tried to work on projects on the side while working, with all that "great down time at the overnight and between legs" and I will say it's EXTREMELY difficult. Many will say "oh no, I do it all the time" but my experience is simply this- flying the line is a fully engulfing experience, much more so than sitting in the office starting at a computer screen, and your attention has to shift constantly to that which requires your most urgent attention. Traffic, check lists, approach plates, calling ops, calculating duty limits, watching the wing tips, double checking systems are in the right state, etc, and to walk away fatigued is a normal thing, even for a long term pro at it. To then constantly sit down and work at some completely unrelated profession in a dedicated tempo is extremely trying and burning the candle at both ends. You are more likely to be pooped out and unable to enjoy both fully than if you chose one or the other, and just dabbled in the unchosen. The industry is saturated, and it's not going to stop having it's cycles, as great as it looks now. You could enjoy a great experience flying Cirrus sr22s when you like, and all the freedom aviation has to offer, and buy first class tickets any where you wanted and still have many many hundreds of thousands of dollars more in your account in 20-30 years than if you go the airline route, ancilliary profession or not.
Yes, many of us regional bubbas will make it to a Major airline. But this will be the exception to the norm, and it really is more of a lottery than meritocracy. With aircraft getting larger, and hence the same number of pilots to fly more passengers, and things like NASA funded single pilot airline operations research already many years in, there will continue to be regression in the dream that is based on a 20th century nostalgia. Who knows- maybe it will start with FAA approval of something like "121 cargo ops under 3 hours are single pilot approved with a super dispatcher/FO constantly monitoring the flight and at the ready to take over if needed" or something even more daring and only expand more as we see how safe it is in practice, technology's advance will be something we will constantly have to fight and feel threatened by not unlike factory workers in the US watching robotic arms take over their jobs. This is a much more likely scenario, than the yay we're all happily and securely employed in a very steady industry with a single carrier that will never downsize or file bankruptcy ever again. People do leave the industry every year, but not enough. Enough - but please, heavily consider enjoying success in a different profession and using your excess freedom and financial stability to get that type rating for fun (737s can be had for 7k ish) and know you're far, far better off in so many ways if you didn't walk in the door then have to start over again later on in life, which is a high likelihood here. One of the most impressive things I have heard was from a senior captain - no where else in the "professional world do you have to risk losing your job 4 times a year. 2 medicals a year for a captain over 40, and a line check as well as recurrent. Never mind making a mistake, as well all do, and getting violated. Here's my 2 cents - enjoy
06-05-2015, 07:05 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 555
Since it sounds like you're sincerely looking for some guidance, here's my 2 cents : enjoy getting your education, DO NOT get anything related to "aviation" (switch degrees from a technical computer science field, for instance) focus on the gpa in case grad school is something you want in the future, and enjoy flying for fun. I'm a regional pilot who came from a different professional background and have a non aviation degree as well. I've met many a miserable FO or Captain who is not a happy camper, and it won't be easy for them to transition to another field since they have no diversity of education.
It may be cool now to you to think you can fly that sleek, "shiny Jet" but never forget it is just an asset to a company, and the management's job is and always will be to get the lowest labor cost and most efficiency out of the asset. When you get years in to the flying and realize wow, I'm gone from a normal home life pretty much at THE VERY LEAST 50 percent of the month, you see how abnormal and indeed dysfunctional your existence can get. You start missing your kids, have to work on their birthdays, wear down your spouse and family with your constant absences, and miss what a healthy person can consider the greatest joys in life : bonding with loved ones. Yes, the flying is fun and it's neat to see different cities. But guess what? Most pilots don't travel on their off time - they're sick of it. It really is too much of a good thing Now yes, I've tried to work on projects on the side while working, with all that "great down time at the overnight and between legs" and I will say it's EXTREMELY difficult. Many will say "oh no, I do it all the time" but my experience is simply this- flying the line is a fully engulfing experience, much more so than sitting in the office starting at a computer screen, and your attention has to shift constantly to that which requires your most urgent attention. Traffic, check lists, approach plates, calling ops, calculating duty limits, watching the wing tips, double checking systems are in the right state, etc, and to walk away fatigued is a normal thing, even for a long term pro at it. To then constantly sit down and work at some completely unrelated profession in a dedicated tempo is extremely trying and burning the candle at both ends. You are more likely to be pooped out and unable to enjoy both fully than if you chose one or the other, and just dabbled in the unchosen.
The industry is saturated, and it's not going to stop having it's cycles, as great as it looks now. You could enjoy a great experience flying Cirrus sr22s when you like, and all the freedom aviation has to offer, and buy first class tickets any where you wanted and still have many many hundreds of thousands of dollars more in your account in 20-30 years than if you go the airline route, ancilliary profession or not.
Yes, many of us regional bubbas will make it to a Major airline. But this will be the exception to the norm, and it really is more of a lottery than meritocracy. With aircraft getting larger, and hence the same number of pilots to fly more passengers, and things like NASA funded single pilot airline operations research already many years in, there will continue to be regression in the dream that is based on a 20th century nostalgia. Who knows- maybe it will start with FAA approval of something like "121 cargo ops under 3 hours are single pilot approved with a super dispatcher/FO constantly monitoring the flight and at the ready to take over if needed" or something even more daring and only expand more as we see how safe it is in practice, technology's advance will be something we will constantly have to fight and feel threatened by not unlike factory workers in the US watching robotic arms take over their jobs. This is a much more likely scenario, than the yay we're all happily and securely employed in a very steady industry with a single carrier that will never downsize or file bankruptcy ever again. People do leave the industry every year, but not enough. Enough - but please, heavily consider enjoying success in a different profession and using your excess freedom and financial stability to get that type rating for fun (737s can be had for 7k ish) and know you're far, far better off in so many ways if you didn't walk in the door then have to start over again later on in life, which is a high likelihood here. One of the most impressive things I have heard was from a senior captain - no where else in the "professional world do you have to risk losing your job 4 times a year. 2 medicals a year for a captain over 40, and a line check as well as recurrent. Never mind making a mistake, as well all do, and getting violated. Here's my 2 cents - enjoy
It may be cool now to you to think you can fly that sleek, "shiny Jet" but never forget it is just an asset to a company, and the management's job is and always will be to get the lowest labor cost and most efficiency out of the asset. When you get years in to the flying and realize wow, I'm gone from a normal home life pretty much at THE VERY LEAST 50 percent of the month, you see how abnormal and indeed dysfunctional your existence can get. You start missing your kids, have to work on their birthdays, wear down your spouse and family with your constant absences, and miss what a healthy person can consider the greatest joys in life : bonding with loved ones. Yes, the flying is fun and it's neat to see different cities. But guess what? Most pilots don't travel on their off time - they're sick of it. It really is too much of a good thing
Now yes, I've tried to work on projects on the side while working, with all that "great down time at the overnight and between legs" and I will say it's EXTREMELY difficult. Many will say "oh no, I do it all the time" but my experience is simply this- flying the line is a fully engulfing experience, much more so than sitting in the office starting at a computer screen, and your attention has to shift constantly to that which requires your most urgent attention. Traffic, check lists, approach plates, calling ops, calculating duty limits, watching the wing tips, double checking systems are in the right state, etc, and to walk away fatigued is a normal thing, even for a long term pro at it. To then constantly sit down and work at some completely unrelated profession in a dedicated tempo is extremely trying and burning the candle at both ends. You are more likely to be pooped out and unable to enjoy both fully than if you chose one or the other, and just dabbled in the unchosen. The industry is saturated, and it's not going to stop having it's cycles, as great as it looks now. You could enjoy a great experience flying Cirrus sr22s when you like, and all the freedom aviation has to offer, and buy first class tickets any where you wanted and still have many many hundreds of thousands of dollars more in your account in 20-30 years than if you go the airline route, ancilliary profession or not.
Yes, many of us regional bubbas will make it to a Major airline. But this will be the exception to the norm, and it really is more of a lottery than meritocracy. With aircraft getting larger, and hence the same number of pilots to fly more passengers, and things like NASA funded single pilot airline operations research already many years in, there will continue to be regression in the dream that is based on a 20th century nostalgia. Who knows- maybe it will start with FAA approval of something like "121 cargo ops under 3 hours are single pilot approved with a super dispatcher/FO constantly monitoring the flight and at the ready to take over if needed" or something even more daring and only expand more as we see how safe it is in practice, technology's advance will be something we will constantly have to fight and feel threatened by not unlike factory workers in the US watching robotic arms take over their jobs. This is a much more likely scenario, than the yay we're all happily and securely employed in a very steady industry with a single carrier that will never downsize or file bankruptcy ever again. People do leave the industry every year, but not enough. Enough - but please, heavily consider enjoying success in a different profession and using your excess freedom and financial stability to get that type rating for fun (737s can be had for 7k ish) and know you're far, far better off in so many ways if you didn't walk in the door then have to start over again later on in life, which is a high likelihood here. One of the most impressive things I have heard was from a senior captain - no where else in the "professional world do you have to risk losing your job 4 times a year. 2 medicals a year for a captain over 40, and a line check as well as recurrent. Never mind making a mistake, as well all do, and getting violated. Here's my 2 cents - enjoy
Great post!
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06-07-2015, 01:33 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 89
I hate to see anyone do it....here is why. For starters...if you were to take all that money flight training costs....and invest it...you'd be well ahead on your retirement savings. It's great if you can get in..upgrade fast and make some money. It's going to suck staying a regional first officer. There is nothing worse than commuting, I would live in base if you could. The upgrade time is going to depend on what company you choose. It just doesn't always present a golden brick road for everyone...the lucky few have that. I don't like seeing people get paid the way airlines do it. You should get full hourly pay for each duty hour....every other job does this. The whole pay for block stuff is bull crap. It's why I bailed for a career with a retirement pension and better pay. The amount of money you could make in another career will put you ahead in life earlier...than most pilots. It sucked seeing guys with 20 years in the industry...starting over at 20k a year....for the 4th time at their 4th airline. www.thetruthabouttheprofession.com read that....it is everything in truth about the job...no BS. My family became strangers, my friends stopped calling...and I became very lonely. It only takes being gone so long...before other just give up on you. On the positive side....it was a fun job....I've been all over the country...and used my non rev benefits to take some amazing vacations. I can't think of anything else positive though.
Last edited by Akbush; 06-07-2015 at 01:46 PM.
06-07-2015, 06:59 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 174
And realize that many folks on the regional (and even the Majors) forums will say anything to get you in the door, they just want you to feed their pyramid scheme. So that they can get to a major of their choice, while not being furloughed.
Every regional will be in deep doo doo by the time you graduate. They will not be able to staff unless the pay and work conditions get better by a big margin.
This is not 1980.
My advice (after 20 years flying corporate, airlines, instructing etc.), get a real job and buy your own airplane when you are successful. Suggest an airline pilot career to those who are your enemies.
God help us pilots if recession strikes.
Every regional will be in deep doo doo by the time you graduate. They will not be able to staff unless the pay and work conditions get better by a big margin.
This is not 1980.
My advice (after 20 years flying corporate, airlines, instructing etc.), get a real job and buy your own airplane when you are successful. Suggest an airline pilot career to those who are your enemies.
God help us pilots if recession strikes.
06-09-2015, 02:43 AM
#36
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SIC
Posts: 1,367
You'll have to do what's right for you.
I've known people who've left $100k non-flying jobs for $20k regional jobs. And have known regional/mainline pilots who've left their flying profession for sub $100k non-flying gigs.
Each family situation is different, each life situation is different. I left after a downgrade in 2008, took a job with the federal government and have flown for fun. What I'll say, $100k doesn't go THAT far...but it makes the thought of taking an $80k pay cut a bit more unbearable.
For me, I miss the flying and I miss the people. The industry as a whole I think could use some fixing, but if given the opportunity to go to a major I'd happily jump at it...same time, I think it could be a very bad decision for my family. You only live once, so do what makes you happy...or be happy with what you're doing. As far as what you do for a job, it's just that, a job. Find a way to contribute something back to the world, and make this place better for everyone else around you! If you can't find happiness in that, I don't know if you ever will.
I've known people who've left $100k non-flying jobs for $20k regional jobs. And have known regional/mainline pilots who've left their flying profession for sub $100k non-flying gigs.
Each family situation is different, each life situation is different. I left after a downgrade in 2008, took a job with the federal government and have flown for fun. What I'll say, $100k doesn't go THAT far...but it makes the thought of taking an $80k pay cut a bit more unbearable.
For me, I miss the flying and I miss the people. The industry as a whole I think could use some fixing, but if given the opportunity to go to a major I'd happily jump at it...same time, I think it could be a very bad decision for my family. You only live once, so do what makes you happy...or be happy with what you're doing. As far as what you do for a job, it's just that, a job. Find a way to contribute something back to the world, and make this place better for everyone else around you! If you can't find happiness in that, I don't know if you ever will.
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