My problem (DUI arrests)
04-19-2013, 07:46 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
One big difference though is that distracted driving is momentary.
You are distracted while engaged in some other activity - the rest of the time you are supposedly functional.
Drunk driving is not momentary. You are drunk and impaired from the moment you sit behind the wheel until the end of your trip - wherever that end may be.
You are distracted while engaged in some other activity - the rest of the time you are supposedly functional.
Drunk driving is not momentary. You are drunk and impaired from the moment you sit behind the wheel until the end of your trip - wherever that end may be.
The person who operates a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or drugs was likely mentally impaired when he/she made the decision to get behind the wheel. However the person who texts makes a fully conscious decision to drive inattentively.
Car and Driver did an interesting test that showed texting and driving to actually be worse than drinking and driving in terms of impairment. Here's a link:Texting And Driving Worse Than Drinking and Driving
And a link to a newspaper article that, in my opinion, highlights the double standard:
Youngstown News, Texting driver gets 45 days in jail in death of Springfield man
Forty five days in jail and a $900.00 fine for killing a man while texting and driving? What do you think the punishment would have been if the driver were intoxicated?
04-19-2013, 08:08 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
To the OP, I don't think the story of Randy Babbitt has been mentioned here yet. You might want to familiarize yourself with that. Additionally I thought of a contingency plan in case the 121 gig doesn't work out. The job pays well, you get to fly all over the world and your background, decision making ability and judgement don't seem to matter. You could become a politician.
04-19-2013, 08:55 AM
#53
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,044
When I first read this forum posting last night I was actually rather angry and decided to take some time before I responded. Given that I just posted a quite funny clip about a drunken airline pilot, I think I succeeded in calming down a bit. However, I do still want to at least address the part of this that has me steamed.
From the OP he states that….
“I have family at a major airline that is willing to help me get on as soon as I'm done with my training. He/she already knows about this situation and is researching it as well from their end.”
I know that in this industry it can be all about WHO you know, but this is taking things to the extreme. There is actually someone (in some sort of authority position I assume) at a Major airline that is actively working to help get someone hired that they KNOW has 2 DUI arrests. Right now I still fly for the military, but will be getting out early next year and be competing for jobs against the rest of you. How many of you want to sit in an interview group and wonder to yourself, “is that guy right there the one that has 2 DUI’s but will still get hired before I do because he knows somebody?” Am I the only one that sees a HUGE problem with this? This is not one DUI when someone was young and stupid, this is 2 of them and the most current one was in their 30’s.
I am sure there will be someone out there who will disagree with me, which is all part of the fun in online forums. While I know nobody is perfect and many times people deserve a second chance, it really just does not sit well with me that this person very well may get hired ahead of some truly stellar candidates just because they “Know somebody.”
From the OP he states that….
“I have family at a major airline that is willing to help me get on as soon as I'm done with my training. He/she already knows about this situation and is researching it as well from their end.”
I know that in this industry it can be all about WHO you know, but this is taking things to the extreme. There is actually someone (in some sort of authority position I assume) at a Major airline that is actively working to help get someone hired that they KNOW has 2 DUI arrests. Right now I still fly for the military, but will be getting out early next year and be competing for jobs against the rest of you. How many of you want to sit in an interview group and wonder to yourself, “is that guy right there the one that has 2 DUI’s but will still get hired before I do because he knows somebody?” Am I the only one that sees a HUGE problem with this? This is not one DUI when someone was young and stupid, this is 2 of them and the most current one was in their 30’s.
I am sure there will be someone out there who will disagree with me, which is all part of the fun in online forums. While I know nobody is perfect and many times people deserve a second chance, it really just does not sit well with me that this person very well may get hired ahead of some truly stellar candidates just because they “Know somebody.”
Who you know is usually fundamental to success in aviation.
Some people are connected because they were born into an airline family.
Others are connected because they are good people and good at what they do, so they have many friends and associates willing to go to bat for them.
The former is what it is, and has been since the dawn of history.
There's nothing negative about the later IMO. Any employer is going to prefer a known quantity, as opposed to someone unknown... who in an extreme case might have fabricated his entire professional flying career (yes it's happened).
04-20-2013, 10:07 AM
#54
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
1. Any arrest is discoverable by any background check. Your record will show "Arrest" and status of charges, to include "Dismissed" etc. The arrest itself will be shown however.
2. You did not report the first arrest. This is a potential (and likely) problem with the FAA. With the FAA, you either a) tell the truth on medical and logbook/etc entries or b) don't tell the truth and thus commit fraud/falsifications and thus subject to revocation of certificates/ratings.
3. Since your ratings/licenses/certificates may be revoked, all your friends at the majors won't be able to do anything since the basic requirement to be hired is, well, have a license to fly.
4. ONE ARREST, much less two, are indicators of a "problem child" and in today's hiring environment and sue happy climate, HR departments will take a CAREFUL look at whether to hire you.
5. Your DUI lawyer has no clue about FAA law, which is admin law, not criminal law. Under adminstrative law, basically the owner of the rulebook (the FAA), runs the show. There is no "interpretation" or "subject to review" (in most cases) regarding the FARS and DUI/criminal arrests.
6. Call AOPA Legal. But a lawyer is not a magician. They can only work with what you bring them. If you bring them a s-sandwich they at the end of the day, the sandwich is still gonna be s. Your situation is dire and you may want to pursue another field.
2. You did not report the first arrest. This is a potential (and likely) problem with the FAA. With the FAA, you either a) tell the truth on medical and logbook/etc entries or b) don't tell the truth and thus commit fraud/falsifications and thus subject to revocation of certificates/ratings.
3. Since your ratings/licenses/certificates may be revoked, all your friends at the majors won't be able to do anything since the basic requirement to be hired is, well, have a license to fly.
4. ONE ARREST, much less two, are indicators of a "problem child" and in today's hiring environment and sue happy climate, HR departments will take a CAREFUL look at whether to hire you.
5. Your DUI lawyer has no clue about FAA law, which is admin law, not criminal law. Under adminstrative law, basically the owner of the rulebook (the FAA), runs the show. There is no "interpretation" or "subject to review" (in most cases) regarding the FARS and DUI/criminal arrests.
6. Call AOPA Legal. But a lawyer is not a magician. They can only work with what you bring them. If you bring them a s-sandwich they at the end of the day, the sandwich is still gonna be s. Your situation is dire and you may want to pursue another field.
04-20-2013, 10:36 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Courtroom
Posts: 177
I would also never ask anyone to walk a resume in without them already knowing everything about my situation.
Let's face it, it's not really whether you were convicted. It's whether you did what you did or were alleged to have done.
You're asking about getting someone to pay you to be entrusted with their 40 million dollar machine and hundreds of lives onboard, as well as the financial well being of the company, the lives of everyone in it and those associated with it and the clients thereof. It's a judgement issue. As aviators we're paid not for our monkey-flying skills, but for our judgement.
Your judgement thus far is lacking.
You have no idea who I am or anything about my situation other than the info I have provide thus far which isn't much.
Do I regret my decisions the night of the recent situation? DAMN RIGHT! Hindsight is a mother though and I can't change it. Yes, I would do most things over again such as "Blow," grab a hotel room, etc... Again you don't know me or this situation other than I am facing a possible drivers license suspension.
You have a problem. Whether it's a drinking problem or not is unclear, but you have a judgement problem.
It's all about judgement. Regretting bad decisions doesn't mean you've never done it before or never repeated it. How many times have you been impaired and not been caught? How many times have you been just under the legal limit? Is that okay, because it's legal?
Once again the first DWI arrest charges were dropped. There is a VERY good reason for this and it had nothing to do with tampering with evidence, etc...
Are you saying that you weren't intoxicated, or weren't impaired, then?
Judgement.
I work for 2 very respectable companies of which everyone here knows. I've NEVER used networking to obtain a position within a company. I've worked my ASS off to get where I am. I typically get 5 hours of sleep each night and it has been that way for a long long time.
You seem to be missing the point.
04-21-2013, 11:24 AM
#56
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Posts: 115
04-24-2013, 01:40 PM
#57
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Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
Talk to an aviaiton lawyer. Try AOPA legal. AOPA Pilot Protection Services
04-24-2013, 06:13 PM
#58
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Been watching this discussion develop. Here's what strikes me:
It doesn't matter that the charges got dropped. Nor does it matter that you now "regret" your decisions the night of the recent event. This business is not about "woulda, coulda, shoulda." It's about having the foresight and situational awareness to NEVER put yourself in that type of situation.
Having worked with and helped several folks who had problems and faced them; I'll say this: You need to look yourself hard in the mirror and face the fact that there is a problem. No amount of anything is going to change that. Yes, you had two events where you got caught. You tried to play fast and loose based on a lawyers suggestion. Poor judgement.
You can bet your last dollar that the FAA and any company WILL find out. And you can have every box checked and a stack of recommendations...and if there is someone who doesn't have the same issues...guess who wins?
Can the situation be resolved? Possibly. First, you have to face facts about your issues. Next, you need to find a credible SAP (Substance Abuse Professional) and sit down with them so they can look into your head and see what's going on. And then follow what they say TO THE LETTER. Don't waste your time BS'ing them...you're out of your league.
You are overcompensating with your studies to try and cover for it.
Ain't gonna work.
This may all sound pretty blunt. It's meant to be. If you want a career in this business, you have to be a person the other crewmembers have 100% absolute faith and confidence in when it comes to judgement when the chips are down. Right now...you aren't there. And if I can't trust you to face up to this, I sure as hell can't trust you in the seat.
Take all the comments from folks here as a cold bucket of water and focus on your REAL issue...not looking for ways around it.
2.) Once again the first DWI arrest charges were dropped. There is a VERY good reason for this and it had nothing to do with tampering with evidence, etc...
3.) Do I regret my decisions the night of the recent situation? DAMN RIGHT! Hindsight is a mother though and I can't change it. Yes, I would do most things over again such as "Blow," grab a hotel room, etc... Again you don't know me or this situation other than I am facing a possible drivers license suspension.
3.) Do I regret my decisions the night of the recent situation? DAMN RIGHT! Hindsight is a mother though and I can't change it. Yes, I would do most things over again such as "Blow," grab a hotel room, etc... Again you don't know me or this situation other than I am facing a possible drivers license suspension.
Having worked with and helped several folks who had problems and faced them; I'll say this: You need to look yourself hard in the mirror and face the fact that there is a problem. No amount of anything is going to change that. Yes, you had two events where you got caught. You tried to play fast and loose based on a lawyers suggestion. Poor judgement.
You can bet your last dollar that the FAA and any company WILL find out. And you can have every box checked and a stack of recommendations...and if there is someone who doesn't have the same issues...guess who wins?
Can the situation be resolved? Possibly. First, you have to face facts about your issues. Next, you need to find a credible SAP (Substance Abuse Professional) and sit down with them so they can look into your head and see what's going on. And then follow what they say TO THE LETTER. Don't waste your time BS'ing them...you're out of your league.
You are overcompensating with your studies to try and cover for it.
Ain't gonna work.
This may all sound pretty blunt. It's meant to be. If you want a career in this business, you have to be a person the other crewmembers have 100% absolute faith and confidence in when it comes to judgement when the chips are down. Right now...you aren't there. And if I can't trust you to face up to this, I sure as hell can't trust you in the seat.
Take all the comments from folks here as a cold bucket of water and focus on your REAL issue...not looking for ways around it.
04-25-2013, 07:16 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 381
Quote:
This may all sound pretty blunt. It's meant to be. If you want a career in this business, you have to be a person the other crewmembers have 100% absolute faith and confidence in when it comes to judgement when the chips are down. Right now...you aren't there. And if I can't trust you to face up to this, I sure as hell can't trust you in the seat.
You will do fine in airline top-management. No Boys Scouts needed for top-management.
This may all sound pretty blunt. It's meant to be. If you want a career in this business, you have to be a person the other crewmembers have 100% absolute faith and confidence in when it comes to judgement when the chips are down. Right now...you aren't there. And if I can't trust you to face up to this, I sure as hell can't trust you in the seat.
You will do fine in airline top-management. No Boys Scouts needed for top-management.
04-25-2013, 06:10 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Quote:
This may all sound pretty blunt. It's meant to be. If you want a career in this business, you have to be a person the other crewmembers have 100% absolute faith and confidence in when it comes to judgement when the chips are down. Right now...you aren't there. And if I can't trust you to face up to this, I sure as hell can't trust you in the seat.
You will do fine in airline top-management. No Boys Scouts needed for top-management.
This may all sound pretty blunt. It's meant to be. If you want a career in this business, you have to be a person the other crewmembers have 100% absolute faith and confidence in when it comes to judgement when the chips are down. Right now...you aren't there. And if I can't trust you to face up to this, I sure as hell can't trust you in the seat.
You will do fine in airline top-management. No Boys Scouts needed for top-management.
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