chazbird

Its a sad commentary on how employment is affected when you have to report arrests vs convictions. From what I understand from this thread even if you are proven innocent through the courts, or you have the charges dropped, you'll still be in doo-doo and potentially barred from many types of employment. Arrests do not specifically mean that you did anything wrong. That's for a judge or jury to decide, and they are not foolproof either. Its fortunate I've not had a problem like this. Can anyone illustrate what will or will not happen when you report an arrest (but no conviction, plea bargain, etc.) on a medical or airline application?

citation35hf

Couple questions....

1. When was your first DUI arrest? (Did you already have a medical at the time?)

2. If you get a certified copy of your driving history from the state which you were holding a license during your first arrest, does the first (arrest's) administrative suspension show? (Would say chemical test failure or chemical test refusal. I ask because a good attorney would be able to have that removed from your driving history had the DUI/OVI/DWI been dismissed.

3. When was your most recent arrest? If you refused a chemical test, your license would have been suspended almost immediately.

My Quals: part 121 pilot, current practicing attorney, state of indiana. Part-time (reserve) police officer, prior full-time for a large city.

citation35hf

Most airlines only ask for convictions or any sort of pending charges. There maybe a few companies that are pickier, I would imagine maybe DAL, SWA, etc. I know at RAH our app only asks about convictions.

The FAA medical asks about convictions and DUI/OVI/DWI administrative events.

An administrative event on a license occurs when a person fails a chemical test or refuses a chemical test. (30-360 day automatic license suspension depending on the state. This occurs even before a person is found guilty/not guilty etc)

Yoda2

Yes it is unfortunate, and maybe unjust; however it is reality. The chances are good that the FAA will give a relative pass on the first and hopefully only DWI, although it very much depends on the circumstances. However the FAA might still request a personal written statement and case records to assist in their evaluation, even with a first arrest. The evaluations are done on a case by case basis with several factors considered. If an arrest comes to the FAA's attention via a medical application; the AME will very likely defer issuance of the certificate pending a decision from Oklahoma City. The reason they now ask about arrest is that many first time offenders manage to get the charge reduced to so something less than a DWI or on rare ocassion to something not related to alcohol; formerly unreportable offenses. Therefore when a person encounters a subsequent DWI arrest and is sucessfully prosecuted it appears to the FAA as that persons first, when in reality a pattern has been established that quite likely signals a person has a substance abuse problem, at the least, as opposed to an isolated lapse of judgment such as having a little to much wine with dinner or being in the wrong place at the wrong time... The FAA is just trying to catch the problem sooner. As far as a job interview with a DWI, many companies won't touch you. The short answer is; if nothing else there are too many applicants that don't have that issue so why should they waste the time.

twobecrazy

Sir,

Thanks for your time. Do you mind if I pm you with that info?

Cubdriver

Yoda, Citation, and other experts, what's your best wisdom on refusing to blow for a routine DUI stop? I had have heard pro and con along these lines-

Con (you should never blow at the traffic stop)

• You are within your legal rights to refuse your breath being personal property in a legal sense, breathalyzing is poor (junk) science, and the latter I tend to believe based on my own experiments with one certified breathalyzer

• They say only direct blood samples can show accurately what you have in your blood, and it is better to not supply the prosecutor breathalyzer data which also may be tampered by unscrupulous personnel.

Pro says
• You are likely to be assumed guilty and parked for a long time if you refuse a test, so just give it to them.

Thoughts?

USMCFLYR

Not drink and drive because I don't want to have to decide whether to take a breathalyzer?

chazbird

Yoda2; Thanks for the feedback - quite well explained and I can see the FAA's rationale. I am still thinking (wishing?) a conviction is the deciding element, while an arrest doesn't prove anything - but I am obviously an old school-out-to-pasture-traditionalist.

Cubdriver

Yeah but let's be realistic: most drivers drink at least socially, and those who are 100% dry may be excused from the present discussion!

USMCFLYR

I'm 100% dry on the road because I know what was at stake during my military career and I know what is at stake now in the civilian world.
I love a drink - vodka being my choice.
Love to have some beers on game day or during a backyard BBQ.
But if I'm going to be out on the road driving, or during a trip for the job, I prefer to take the safest route possible which is for me to not drink.
I know, right or wrong, that I don't even have to necessarily do anything wrong, and I could find myself in more trouble than it is worth - defending myself or HOPING that I calculated my number of drinks per hour correctly. My job, my security, and my future are more important than that drink.
In all of this - we are also talking about the OP who has two incidents that he is hoping a lawyer is going to be able to clean up his record.
If a person is responsible about their drinking then I hope they can have a good time, but the cards are getting stacked against that 'responsible effort' more and more everyday it seems.
Plus - you asked the question - I gave you MY plan.