CareerChangeRN

Hello everyone!

I'm posting here because I am contemplating a career change. I currently work full time as a Registered Nurse for the NHS in the UK. I got into Nursing simply because it is what the job demand was when I went int University and because of this, I don't really like what I am doing. It's okay, it pays the bills, but I think I've hit the point wherein I'm starting to question whether I can do this for another 10, 20, or God forbid, 30 years! I'm turning 31 this year and I have a wife and two sons, ages 10 and 3. So as you can see, I can't really dive into aviation with both feet due to my obligations to my family.

However, this hasn't really made me less interested in aviation. To be honest, up until this point, I've found "civil aviation" to be boring, just going from A-to-B. I've been more of a combat flight simulation enthusiast, only using MSFSX to learn a bit of how to fly. However, looking at pictures of VFR flights and watching a few shows on TV, it doesn't look too bad . I'll be honest and say I'd rather pilot a fighter jet and turn-and-burn and buzz the tower, but when reality kicks in, I'd be happy to be able to do this and make a decent living out of it.

Which brings me to my next point -- financial rewards. I'm not looking to get rich or fly a jet-setter lifestyle, but if I can make the same amount of money I do now (about £22,000-£24,000/year), I'd be very happy. Again, this isn't about "getting rich," but rather me knowing from experience that this amount of money is enough for me to sustain my responsibilities as a husband/parent. I know airline pilots can make this or more, but I cannot really spend the next 5-8 years waiting to get to this level.

Over the past week, I've been doing a bit of research and it seems like the best way for me to do this, considering my situation and responsibilities, is to do the modular approach, do my PPL and progress as far up as I can, then see if I can do something that will have a financial reward, maybe instructor pilot or something else. I can't really envision myself paying for all of the hours needed so anything that can "dampen" the financial burden would be a help

My local airport has two established flight schools and has a third flight school that is a "satellite office" of a school based on a bigger city about an hour away. One of the guys I've spoken with says he'll probably need an instructor in a year or two when his current instructors build up enough time and go airlines or something. He said the going rate is about £20/hour for the instructor pilot, but what I failed to ask is if this is "brakes off to brakes on" time or if it is a flat rate whether I'm flying or doing some classroom work.

So anyway, that is my background so far. At this point, I'm still very new so I'm not even sure what sort of guidance I would be needing, although confirmation of that "instructor pilot rate" would be appreciated. I've read enough horror stories and watched a few documentary videos to be aware of the initial hurdles so at this point, I have no plans of quitting my employment at the NHS and will simply do this on my free time; at the most maybe dropping down to part-time if some sort of aviation work will present itself.

CareerChangeRN

PS. please note that at this point, an airline gig doesn't seem to be in the cards. I don't want to go into too much debt considering that the current economic climate doesn't seem to be too kind to the lowest-ranking/least-senior FOs, so for now, I'm only willing to go as far as how much I can save up for or how much I can borrow with a 1.5-2year loan. So the "target audience" for now is either flight school as an instructor pilot or maybe some sort of small-time businesses involved in aviation.

Which also brings me to ask, what other non-airline options are available to low-time pilots in the UK?

Thanks!

PCLCREW

This isnt a knock against you... but funny thing is in the USA many pilots are leaving the airlines to become RN's because the job is total crap..

Good Luck in your training

CareerChangeRN

Haha... wait until they get employed as RNs, **if** they get employed. Even in healthcare, jobs are hard to come by in the UK, however, once you're in, you're in. That is why I'm not letting go if my NHS work as much as possible.

galaxy flyer

In the US, RNs have always been in short supply--name their ours and terms. Also, can travel the world, working.

GF

JamesNoBrakes

Typically the instructor rate is for the time you spend with the instructor. This is greater than the time the engine is running. During the times when the engine is not running, they are still usually providing guidance, oversight, ensuring your safety, etc. The "big three" items are usually pre-brief, flight, and post-brief, but remember that this is the instructor's job. If they block you out for a certain amount of time, they are within their rights to charge you for it as long as something constructive is happening. The instructor also usually comes out and looks over part of your preflight or does their own short pre-flight to ensure two sets of eyes looked at most everything. This is definitely charge-able time and the way I'd prepare any prospective student for this is that any time spent with the instructor related to the purpose of flight is going to be charged. If we are sitting there waiting 10 minutes for a fuel truck, then I'll usually be a nice guy and subtract that part. If it takes you 45 minutes to preflight I'd be out there in 10 minutes and charge the balance that it takes. At first I'd be showing the student how to do the preflight, then after a few of those its in their best interest to speed things up by learning the flow and items, practicing, studying. If they choose not to, they pay for the extra time it takes, and that's just life. The instructor should never be charging you for time spent if you're doing something like having lunch or just waiting around for something to happen. They also should not offer to subtract ground time if you buy lunch, as there are ethical problems there too. Usually most students are a good judge of what is going on and most instructors are out there to be fair. There are a few instructors on the fringe that sell themselves significantly short, but if the quality of instruction is poor you aren't really saving $ on anything, and there are a few that may try to unethically overcharge. Most are trying to do the right thing and you'll see a little variance within those extremes, but usually they are acceptable.

When you just start out, realize it may take the instructor an hour to teach you preflight, it may take 30 minutes to pre-brief and another 30 minutes to de-brief. There are plenty of flights later on that STILL might take that long to pre and post brief, but as you progress many things will get shorter and you'll get more efficient. This takes motivation, but it's usual that the times get less and less. So when you're doing those first few activities don't be too surprised if the cost/time is well above average. When I used to instruct private students those first activities would be at least a 3hr block, if not more. The reason was that I wanted them to do as much as practical, so that they could as quickly as possible learn the things that they could do by themselves, like preflight and checklists, which made more time for the important stuff. The longer you do something, the better you are at doing it.

Anyways, I hope you become a pilot. Realize there are many paths to aviation, one can own and fly their own aerobatic aircraft, maybe get into aerobatic instruction, pull Gs and all the crazy stuff, without being an airline pilot or going that route. There are plenty of people with a passion for aviation that use other means to fund it.

Yoda2

Try and keep the nurse gig. My significant other is an RN. She has been doing it for over 30 Years. She has also expressed some of the same concerns regarding her career. She has changed specialties a few times, mainly to keep from getting burnt out... BTW, it is getting to be the same here now. Just a few years ago RN's could write their our ticket; until evryone discovered nursing... Now RN jobs are not quite as plentiful and many hospitals are even requiring that new hires be Bachelors prepared. Additionally the nursing schools are still packed. It's your call but given your situation I might suggest you go ahead and get your Private and Instrument and reevaluate at that time. You will then have, at least, a great hobby and maybe more. You might even decide to build your own airplane, with help from your sons. Many flying jobs would keep you away from your family, this could do the opposite. As far as the fighter pilot/aerobatic deal; you might want to go find out what your propensity for air sickness and G tolerance is. Find a very qualified aerobatic instructor and see what 6 or 8 G's feels like for starters; you might also have an inverted ridge crossing and some negative thrown in for good measure! Don't go deep in debt, you're going to need the money for the family anyway. Lest I forget; RN's generally make great pilots, generally MD's don't... Good luck!

CareerChangeRN

James, thanks for the input. However, I wasn't asking about how the IP would charge me, but rather how much I would expect to earn once **I'm** the IP From what I can tell, the course from zero to PPL is about £7,000 (don't have the brochure handy), so I figure the IP time is included there. Thanks for the well wishes too, I'm glad to know there's more to aviation than tubeliners. Unfortunately, I'm very new I don't know what they are, any chance of some ideas and explanations of what I can do flying and getting paid?

Hell, I'd be happy to fly for free if I can just get the aircraft/fuel/fees costs covered!

Yoda, I agree. RNs was a good gig years ago, around the early 90s. I have a relative in Texas that was an RN at that time and life for him was good. Now, well, I got cousins in California that are RNs... those that are working complain about the stress of the job and how spread thin they are. Those that aren't working are hard-pressed to find a job as an RN. So I guess I am lucky to have landed a job as an RN for the UK's NHS -- I do get burned out at times so I am looking to "branch out" into flying, if I can make this my primary income, that's great but if not or until then, I'm keeping my NHS job.

Currently, I may need to take out a loan to fund the PPL, but I'm not worried as I can repay that loan in less than a year... so I either take the loan and learn now or save up for a year and do it then. I don't like being in debt and even before I've read the "horror stories," I was skeptical just by looking at the quoted course costs vs. regional airline estimated FO income.

JamesNoBrakes

I think you can figure it out from what I'm saying. Think of yourself is a lawyer, or doctor, or any other professional. Think about what you would charge for if with a customer/client/patient. Like I said, some just do a .3 prebrief/.2 post brief "standard", but that usually sells yourself way short. Best to keep a time-log/use a timer at first and time it. You don't want to overcharge, yet you need to be fair to yourself and students will respect you for this. Charge the actual time for the prebrief. If you are out there overseeing safety with the student, charge for that time. If they are by themselves and you are not directly overseeing them, probably do not charge for that time. If you are having lunch, don't charge for that. If they are running the before-start checklist, you better be charging for that time, etc. If you preflight an airplane and come to find out something is broken, you NEED to charge for the time you were doing stuff up until it broke and whatever de-brief is necessary. This kind of stinks, but this is the real world and it's your time and you are a professional. You must be ethical and keep good time, but you will usually get the respect you deserve when you do this.

RBI73

Just realize that learning to fly in the UK is a lot more expensive than here, and I think most people on here are from the states. so run our advice through a filter. I had a student from the UK once. It was cheaper for him to fly to Colorado, stay in a Hotel and get his PPC over the course of a month than to do it at home in the UK.