Should I Continue?
09-09-2012, 12:32 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Airbus 319/320 Captain
Posts: 880
Skyhigh, you’re one of the names that seems to stand out to me on this board. And I told myself the same thing. I have essentially come to this reliaztion myself, but I am doing extensive reading and thinking it over before I make a decision. I want to be comepltely informed about it.
Thanks for the compliment. I mean, I’m not a “young kid” per se. By that I mean…I’m not 19. (I’m 26 for the record.) Nor am I “too old to consider this as an option.” I know a lot of people my age who are still just all about partying and getting drunk…and that’s just not my thing. I want to prepare for a future, so I’m trying to have a head on straight about it. (As I said earlier…I had a lot of stuff happen early in life that made me grow up really early.) And I do really like the diea of flying as a hobby…just wondering if it’s one I’d be able to keep up with.
You said “you fell into that trap.” I presume you work in the aviation field? In what capacity, if you don’t mind my asking? And do you regret it? Also, feel free to send me a PM if you’d rather explain that stuff in private.
Thanks for the compliment. I mean, I’m not a “young kid” per se. By that I mean…I’m not 19. (I’m 26 for the record.) Nor am I “too old to consider this as an option.” I know a lot of people my age who are still just all about partying and getting drunk…and that’s just not my thing. I want to prepare for a future, so I’m trying to have a head on straight about it. (As I said earlier…I had a lot of stuff happen early in life that made me grow up really early.) And I do really like the diea of flying as a hobby…just wondering if it’s one I’d be able to keep up with.
You said “you fell into that trap.” I presume you work in the aviation field? In what capacity, if you don’t mind my asking? And do you regret it? Also, feel free to send me a PM if you’d rather explain that stuff in private.
09-09-2012, 12:53 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 2,115
I am considering aviation as just a hobby. My only worry is that it is a very expensive hobby to keep up with. But I also did some very preliminary research on owning my own plane. If I’m willing to buy an older Cessna, they seem to be not overly expensive. (A few I found cost less than what I’m paying for my car!) Obviously, there are much more expenses to it. Gas, insurances, hangers, etc. But the planes itself seem feasible. So if you have any advice on what I might need to consider if I was going to just do GA as a hobby and own a plane…I would be more than willing to hear what you’d have to say about that.
5 of us owned a Mooney for 10 years and it was reasonable. Over the years, guys dropped out and eventually it was just me. I could not afford sole ownership, and finding 4 new trustworthy guys was not practical in the time frame, so we sold her. I now rent a 172 to give friends rides and fly in IMC.
09-09-2012, 01:09 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 248
I don't usually answer posts but I am going to give it a shot for you.
The pilot shortage is crap, the schools and magazines have been talking about this for years, airlines also try to use it to talk the gov out of any legislation that restricts their ability to rape and pillage their pilots at will.
I heard all of this when I graduated in 1990, I spent 10 yrs flying regionals and cargo, I was hired in 2001 by a major cargo carrier , I won't mention which one,but it's not fdx. After 11.5 yrs here I make around 200k and I do actually hold week on week off schedules. However there is no progression and I honestly can't say the personal price I have payed and continue to pay is worth it. The majors are no longer a guarantee if you get there you will be lucky but the pay and benefits are not what they once were
I have missed so much with my son and daughter these are things I will never get back, while the money is nice in retrospect the memories would have been better. I am lucky I still have a pension and good pay and I am the only one of my friends who are not divorced, but my wife is a one in a million and has always been very flexible and willing to step up to the plate and be a single parent when required this is a very lonely lifestyle and not many can do it.
I guess what I am saying is this is your choice but it is very hard on your family and requires a lot of sacrifice
You won't make a living for awhile so be prepared. If I knew what I know now when I started I think I might have gone down a different path.
The pilot shortage is crap, the schools and magazines have been talking about this for years, airlines also try to use it to talk the gov out of any legislation that restricts their ability to rape and pillage their pilots at will.
I heard all of this when I graduated in 1990, I spent 10 yrs flying regionals and cargo, I was hired in 2001 by a major cargo carrier , I won't mention which one,but it's not fdx. After 11.5 yrs here I make around 200k and I do actually hold week on week off schedules. However there is no progression and I honestly can't say the personal price I have payed and continue to pay is worth it. The majors are no longer a guarantee if you get there you will be lucky but the pay and benefits are not what they once were
I have missed so much with my son and daughter these are things I will never get back, while the money is nice in retrospect the memories would have been better. I am lucky I still have a pension and good pay and I am the only one of my friends who are not divorced, but my wife is a one in a million and has always been very flexible and willing to step up to the plate and be a single parent when required this is a very lonely lifestyle and not many can do it.
I guess what I am saying is this is your choice but it is very hard on your family and requires a lot of sacrifice
You won't make a living for awhile so be prepared. If I knew what I know now when I started I think I might have gone down a different path.
09-09-2012, 01:17 PM
#24
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,403
I am considering aviation as just a hobby. My only worry is that it is a very expensive hobby to keep up with. But I also did some very preliminary research on owning my own plane. If I’m willing to buy an older Cessna, they seem to be not overly expensive. (A few I found cost less than what I’m paying for my car!) Obviously, there are much more expenses to it. Gas, insurances, hangers, etc. But the planes itself seem feasible. So if you have any advice on what I might need to consider if I was going to just do GA as a hobby and own a plane…I would be more than willing to hear what you’d have to say about that.
Yeah, the amount of money I’d be putting into it is what concerns me. Paying all that back off. I mean, I am taking out loans to help pay for it, but that’s more of a way to help me kind of “push” through school. My original plan was ot hurry up an do this flight school thing ASAP, and then pay it back with working both an aviation job and my paramedic job. I would have probably ultimately given up paramedicine for aviation (as it seems I would have to) but at least initially that would be my way of paying stuff off. And the schools do seem to be relaly bad with the whole “Don’t worry, you’ll have a job” but when I’m reading into sources that are not academic…the truth of the matter seem to be just the opposite. Moreover, I am currently pulling in approx. ~25K annually as a paramedic…I was also under the impression pilots made significantly more than that…
Regionals will start around $20K (after you buy uniforms), then go up to $25K-$40K for 2-6 years as an FO. A few small turboprop outfits may pay less.
After upgrade to regional captain, you will make $50K-80K for several more years before you get hired at a major. If you stay at the regional you can top out around $100K, maybe a little more. A few small turboprop outfits may pay less.
If you get hired at a major you will start at $40K-60K and then the pay will increase from there, topping out over $100K for FO's. Captains can eventually make close to $200K (FDX/UPS/SWA pay significantly more).
But my concern is more for my future family. As I stated earlier, be it with my current girlfriend or Jane Smith, I want to be able to have some semblance of a family life. Be able to be around my future kids of holidays and such (and be able support them.) At first aviation seemed like an awesome field for that. Now…not so much.
The upside is that you might be able to have significantly more days off than the average corporate drudge, and be able to spend a lot of quality time with your kids when they are young. But that all depends on airline, domicile, seniority, and whether you commute.
I have considered going into other aspects of aviation. ATC, airplane mechanic, Aviation Management, etc. I almost feel like these might be something that I could also do concurrently with being paramedic. My CFI had told me with aviation management “you get to the money a lot faster.” So that is something I would definitely want to consider.
But becoming an airline pilot isn’t always my need-goal. Corporate pilots I think might be fun. Or just…anything that involves flying. I’d even considered maybe only going as high as getting the certs to being a CFI, and then just potentially maybe doing that on the side for some extra money. (On that note, does anyone have any potentially good sources for how I could go about getting just up to a CFI?) But it’s not like I’ve been like “I wanna fly 777s!” What exactly I did as a pilot didn’t matter. (It just seems airlines where were the money was.) Although, what “non-traditional routes did your friends take who got there? (Feel free to just send me a PM if it’s something you’d rather not post publicly.)
There are a FEW good non-airline jobs. Fractionals were considered the way to go a few years ago, but they have furloughed about half their pilots since 2008...and none have ever demonstrated sustained profitability. The great corporate gigs are very hard to get. Most 91 or 135 operations fall short on pay, QOL, work climate, or safety (or all four). There is a reason most of us pursue airline aviation, known quantity and known issues.
Part time, on the side, is most certainly an option. Especially for CFI's but also possible for some corporate or 135 gigs. You just need to put in the time to acquire the requisite skills, types, and flight time to be marketable.
09-10-2012, 08:21 AM
#25
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Get your private and stop there.
Time Lord,
I still would get the private license even if you don't have the resources to fly as a hobby right now. Hopefully you will have 40 years or so to see your aviation dream mature. If you have a private then you can fly on the side over the years and who knows what the future might bring.
Aviation makes for a great retirement job after the kids are grown and gone and the money is in the bank.
Skyhigh
I still would get the private license even if you don't have the resources to fly as a hobby right now. Hopefully you will have 40 years or so to see your aviation dream mature. If you have a private then you can fly on the side over the years and who knows what the future might bring.
Aviation makes for a great retirement job after the kids are grown and gone and the money is in the bank.
Skyhigh
09-10-2012, 08:23 AM
#26
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Frame this one.
I don't usually answer posts but I am going to give it a shot for you.
The pilot shortage is crap, the schools and magazines have been talking about this for years, airlines also try to use it to talk the gov out of any legislation that restricts their ability to rape and pillage their pilots at will.
I heard all of this when I graduated in 1990, I spent 10 yrs flying regionals and cargo, I was hired in 2001 by a major cargo carrier , I won't mention which one,but it's not fdx. After 11.5 yrs here I make around 200k and I do actually hold week on week off schedules. However there is no progression and I honestly can't say the personal price I have payed and continue to pay is worth it. The majors are no longer a guarantee if you get there you will be lucky but the pay and benefits are not what they once were
I have missed so much with my son and daughter these are things I will never get back, while the money is nice in retrospect the memories would have been better. I am lucky I still have a pension and good pay and I am the only one of my friends who are not divorced, but my wife is a one in a million and has always been very flexible and willing to step up to the plate and be a single parent when required this is a very lonely lifestyle and not many can do it.
I guess what I am saying is this is your choice but it is very hard on your family and requires a lot of sacrifice
You won't make a living for awhile so be prepared. If I knew what I know now when I started I think I might have gone down a different path.
The pilot shortage is crap, the schools and magazines have been talking about this for years, airlines also try to use it to talk the gov out of any legislation that restricts their ability to rape and pillage their pilots at will.
I heard all of this when I graduated in 1990, I spent 10 yrs flying regionals and cargo, I was hired in 2001 by a major cargo carrier , I won't mention which one,but it's not fdx. After 11.5 yrs here I make around 200k and I do actually hold week on week off schedules. However there is no progression and I honestly can't say the personal price I have payed and continue to pay is worth it. The majors are no longer a guarantee if you get there you will be lucky but the pay and benefits are not what they once were
I have missed so much with my son and daughter these are things I will never get back, while the money is nice in retrospect the memories would have been better. I am lucky I still have a pension and good pay and I am the only one of my friends who are not divorced, but my wife is a one in a million and has always been very flexible and willing to step up to the plate and be a single parent when required this is a very lonely lifestyle and not many can do it.
I guess what I am saying is this is your choice but it is very hard on your family and requires a lot of sacrifice
You won't make a living for awhile so be prepared. If I knew what I know now when I started I think I might have gone down a different path.
I wish we could etch this post on a brass plate and mount it here for everyone to see forevermore.
Skyhigh
09-10-2012, 11:17 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 381
So what kind of QOL will you have when your girlfriend is studying for her board exams, or during internship and residency? I'll bet you it won't be good.
I have also seen prospective pilots lose their dream because they are in LOVE. Divorce stats are still around 50%.
So what's wrong with helicopters? I got a Comm RW addon 11 years ago and I had the time of my life flying helicopters.
Check out Air Methods website for hiring requirements for pilots, nurses and paramedics. It sounds like you are on the paramedic track.
BTW- avation isn't the only profession that has gotten beaten down. There are investment bankers, lawyers, bankers that are out of work or getting no bonuses. Even in my state of CT million doillar homes are now selling at a discount.
I have also seen prospective pilots lose their dream because they are in LOVE. Divorce stats are still around 50%.
So what's wrong with helicopters? I got a Comm RW addon 11 years ago and I had the time of my life flying helicopters.
Check out Air Methods website for hiring requirements for pilots, nurses and paramedics. It sounds like you are on the paramedic track.
BTW- avation isn't the only profession that has gotten beaten down. There are investment bankers, lawyers, bankers that are out of work or getting no bonuses. Even in my state of CT million doillar homes are now selling at a discount.
09-10-2012, 04:35 PM
#28
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
So what kind of QOL will you have when your girlfriend is studying for her board exams, or during internship and residency? I'll bet you it won't be good.
I have also seen prospective pilots lose their dream because they are in LOVE. Divorce stats are still around 50%.
So what's wrong with helicopters? I got a Comm RW addon 11 years ago and I had the time of my life flying helicopters.
Check out Air Methods website for hiring requirements for pilots, nurses and paramedics. It sounds like you are on the paramedic track.
BTW- avation isn't the only profession that has gotten beaten down. There are investment bankers, lawyers, bankers that are out of work or getting no bonuses. Even in my state of CT million doillar homes are now selling at a discount.
I have also seen prospective pilots lose their dream because they are in LOVE. Divorce stats are still around 50%.
So what's wrong with helicopters? I got a Comm RW addon 11 years ago and I had the time of my life flying helicopters.
Check out Air Methods website for hiring requirements for pilots, nurses and paramedics. It sounds like you are on the paramedic track.
BTW- avation isn't the only profession that has gotten beaten down. There are investment bankers, lawyers, bankers that are out of work or getting no bonuses. Even in my state of CT million doillar homes are now selling at a discount.
However, as for the shortage thing...yes there are a lot of retirements coming up. But just about every industry is affected by the baby boomers retiring. I've heard the "shortage" thing kicked around in *several* decent job sectors. Further, I'm not personally convinced 1 retirement = 1 new hire.
09-11-2012, 02:38 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 2,115
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