Diver Driver

This particular job was in Ohio.

Patuxent78

No one has mentioned the fact that he's taking out student loans to fund his education. It'll cost approx. $40k just to get the certifications and depending on which university, you're attending, could cost another $40k in tuition for everything else. Finding a job to pay that debt down and raise a family is nearly impossible. It's bad enough that you'll live off of ramen noodles for almost a decade after you've finished school, but you'll still have $50-$100k of debt once you do land a decent job.

I wouldn't buy into the garbage a lot of the schools are feeding. They are out there to sell themselves, even if it means your soul. "oh sure, no worries, just talk to Sallie Mae, they'll hook you up."...not!

I really wouldn't factor your girlfriend into the equation, either. No offense, but from experience, gfs come and gfs go. Especially, girlfriends going to medical school. It's a tough life and there is little to no time for relationships in medical school, not serious relationships anyway. So, between you and your dreams and hers, it will eventually send you both in opposite directions, that's life.

But...factor in the money! Debt sucks! I promise, pilots don't make enough to pay that kind of debt off. Most regional pilots earn $16-$25k annually, starting salary. Where exactly are you drawing money from to pay those loans off? Not your salary! That's for your noodles, gas, car, insurance, and the cardboard box on the side of Motel 6.

That's your pessimism for the day.

If after all that, you still want to be a pilot, go for it. Just don't ever say no one warned you first.

JamesNoBrakes

If you have any doubt, the time to get out is early. It's not so much that you'll be 100k in debt (who said it costs 40k for certs...seriously? This ain't 1960 anymore). The problem is you are paying interest on it. Figure 15k for just your private with any kind of quality instruction and (safe) aircraft. Getting up through CFII makes the most sense in terms of versatility and ability to get jobs, but it also puts you real deep in the hole. If you really like aviation and flying, take a few hours to think of all the aviation things you can do and fly as a private pilot on the side. Some of these even include flying: part time instructor, engineer (various disciplines), safety tech/analyst/mgr, wildlife/forest pilot, operations worker, airspace and procedures planner-analyst, aircraft production planner, aviation insurance adjuster-agent, etc. Youd be surprised how much some of these and more are in aviation every single day. Some do not require the whole gauntlet of ratings and certs, just an open mind as to the aviation opportunities out there, and nearly all are better career choices. You are taking a huge gamble that is not paying off like it used to by becoming an airline pilot. If your airline folds or the pension is scrapped, you can instantly lose everything, and have to start over from zero seniority as first officer. That can happen at a regional or major airline pilot. I've kept up with all my airline buddies from 8yrs ago, out of dozens, only two are flying "big" airplanes now, and they both took non traditional routes to get there, they also aren't flying for majors, but big charters that operate 757-sizes airplanes. The rest are battling it out as regional first officers in mostly turboprops, one just made RJ captain, but that guy has more like 10yrs in compared to most of my friends with about 6-8. Remember that there is NO shortage of pilots, there might eventually be a shortage of pilots willing to work for 30k/yr indefinitely. Most importantly, do research on the Internet. Just a few years back you couldn't get ANY of this info. NO ONE would tell you it. Now you can find a lot on your own. Come up with a realistic plan. Much better to spread training over 5yrs and not be in debt than do it in 2yrs and spend 10-15 yrs paying it back and paying an additional 40% of the amount in interest. You can pocket that and use it as a down payment for a home or to get even more hrs later and be more competitive. Good luck, just think it through.
(sorry about no paragraphs...phone)

SkyHigh

If you are already having doubts at this early stage then you already know what your answer is.

Skyhigh

block30

You can always private message me if you have questions...I do my best respond to questions with honesty (be a little wary of the sunshine flight schools sell) and to the best of my experience.

You talk about being mature for your age, and from your posts, it seems to be so. I think the pilot group as a whole is just a little bit more mature, motivated, and courteous as compared to the "average joe." (to name a few things). You will probably fit right in.

I do highly recommend people at least consider flying as a hobby versus thinking; "oh my god! I must do this for a living!". I fell into that trap! .
It seems you are also considering that option, so good on you! I personally still enjoy the heck out of flying a Cessna 150, and owning or partnering on one is relativy cheap.

Flying is an addicton...there are many ways to feed the habit . Best regards!

GoPats

"Much better to spread training over 5yrs and not be in debt than do it in 2yrs and spend 10-15 yrs paying it back and paying an additional 40% of the amount in interest. You can pocket that and use it as a down payment for a home or to get even more hrs later and be more competitive. Good luck, just think it through."

The above is very good advice. Look, you obviously love aviation but you also seem to be very rational. My recommendation to you would be to get a degree which is non-aviation related (engineering,economics,...), start your post-college life with a decent job which can finance your flight training on the side. You don't have kids yet so evenings and weekends won't be a problem with training. This way you can avoid getting into a lot of debt and having to pay it off with a $20K/year job (good luck with that).

Also, as you progress through the ratings, in a slower and more thoughtful manner, you'll get a better feel for aviation and career paths (in aviation or other fields) in general. Maybe you'll discover that some type of flying job is definitely for you or you'll come to the realization that it's great for a weekend "escape".

It's your choice obviously, so don't rush into anything. Take out some insurance, if you will, which will afford you some choices in life.

Patuxent78

Seriously? Try Embry-Riddle!

There are others out there where they'll ask for $59,000 for everything from PPL to Commercial plus time in sims, like ATP's Private to Regional 190 Day Fast Track Program. So, yea, not sure where you've been but there are schools charging that much and convincing students it's a worthwhile investment, even if they are taking out a loan. But ERAU, you'll pay about $100k after its all said and done. Either through scholarship, mostly military, parents or loans.

http://www.atpflightschool.com/airline_training_programs/airline_career_pilot_program/index.html

The Juice

Yes, this is the simple and honest truth. Doubts will also/probably lead to poor training performance, which will further add to the unhappiness.

TimeLordPilot

First of all, I want to thank everyone who has taken time to read and reply to what I’ve posted. I’m going to try as best I can to respond to everyone thoroughly.

I am considering aviation as just a hobby. My only worry is that it is a very expensive hobby to keep up with. But I also did some very preliminary research on owning my own plane. If I’m willing to buy an older Cessna, they seem to be not overly expensive. (A few I found cost less than what I’m paying for my car!) Obviously, there are much more expenses to it. Gas, insurances, hangers, etc. But the planes itself seem feasible. So if you have any advice on what I might need to consider if I was going to just do GA as a hobby and own a plane…I would be more than willing to hear what you’d have to say about that.

Yeah, the amount of money I’d be putting into it is what concerns me. Paying all that back off. I mean, I am taking out loans to help pay for it, but that’s more of a way to help me kind of “push” through school. My original plan was ot hurry up an do this flight school thing ASAP, and then pay it back with working both an aviation job and my paramedic job. I would have probably ultimately given up paramedicine for aviation (as it seems I would have to) but at least initially that would be my way of paying stuff off. And the schools do seem to be relaly bad with the whole “Don’t worry, you’ll have a job” but when I’m reading into sources that are not academic…the truth of the matter seem to be just the opposite. Moreover, I am currently pulling in approx. ~25K annually as a paramedic…I was also under the impression pilots made significantly more than that…

As far as the girlfriend thing goes, let me reiterate—my concern isn’t fully with her. Do I want this to work with her? Of course. I’m not seeing this as a fling. And I would like to go farther. I know Med School is hard on reltionships (being in the medical field myself, I can see why) but we have a rather interesting story to get us up to this point. I won’t go into it all right now, but suffice to say I have faith that it can work—or I wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with.

But my concern is more for my future family. As I stated earlier, be it with my current girlfriend or Jane Smith, I want to be able to have some semblance of a family life. Be able to be around my future kids of holidays and such (and be able support them.) At first aviation seemed like an awesome field for that. Now…not so much.


I have considered going into other aspects of aviation. ATC, airplane mechanic, Aviation Management, etc. I almost feel like these might be something that I could also do concurrently with being paramedic. My CFI had told me with aviation management “you get to the money a lot faster.” So that is something I would definitely want to consider.

But becoming an airline pilot isn’t always my need-goal. Corporate pilots I think might be fun. Or just…anything that involves flying. I’d even considered maybe only going as high as getting the certs to being a CFI, and then just potentially maybe doing that on the side for some extra money. (On that note, does anyone have any potentially good sources for how I could go about getting just up to a CFI?) But it’s not like I’ve been like “I wanna fly 777s!” What exactly I did as a pilot didn’t matter. (It just seems airlines where were the money was.) Although, what “non-traditional routes did your friends take who got there? (Feel free to just send me a PM if it’s something you’d rather not post publicly.)

TimeLordPilot

Skyhigh, you’re one of the names that seems to stand out to me on this board. And I told myself the same thing. I have essentially come to this reliaztion myself, but I am doing extensive reading and thinking it over before I make a decision. I want to be comepltely informed about it.

Thanks for the compliment. I mean, I’m not a “young kid” per se. By that I mean…I’m not 19. (I’m 26 for the record.) Nor am I “too old to consider this as an option.” I know a lot of people my age who are still just all about partying and getting drunk…and that’s just not my thing. I want to prepare for a future, so I’m trying to have a head on straight about it. (As I said earlier…I had a lot of stuff happen early in life that made me grow up really early.) And I do really like the diea of flying as a hobby…just wondering if it’s one I’d be able to keep up with.

You said “you fell into that trap.” I presume you work in the aviation field? In what capacity, if you don’t mind my asking? And do you regret it? Also, feel free to send me a PM if you’d rather explain that stuff in private.