Morv

In summary, I am trying to get some advice on if I should pursue a career as a pilot or not. If you would have any insight at all on the subject, please read on!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________
I am 23 years old I just found out I have a possibility of following my dream to become an airline pilot. As far as my background, I need to start from high school.

Going through high school, my dream was always to be a pilot. My plan was to get into the navy and go through their flight training and then fly airlines when I get out. As everyone knows, not all dreams become a reality. When I was testing into the U.S. Navy, they broke the bad news. I had scored high enough on the test to take any job the navy had to offer (including fighter pilot), but on my application I had put that I was color-deficient. The recruiter told me that if I was colorblind I could never be a pilot. In that moment, I don't know if it was rage or anger or confusion, but I ended up dropping out of high school and picking up a job in a restaurant.

Eventually I got my GED and made good money as a bartender. I tried to go to college but I couldn’t find any career path that I would like to go into as much as I wanted to fly. After switching degrees 3 times then deciding to get an AA, I am now on route to become an immigration attorney. Right now, I have a job as an assistant for a law firm.

For my father’s birthday this year, my mom bought him a surprise acrobatic flight lesson in a T6 Texan. I was to take him to the airport and tell him that I was going for a tour. When we get there and he finds out his present, he tells them to pull out both airplanes because I was going to fly also. After the acrobatics (which was an experience I will never forget) while in the air heading back to the airport, the instructor tells me I should take flight lessons. I had played with simulators for years, so maybe I did well.

Back at the ground I told him that I would love to take lessons, but I think I’m color-deficient so I can’t be a pilot. He tells me that it is not true, as long as I can tell what the colors are, it doesn’t matter what I call them.

I came back a week later in the evening and he asked the tower to flash the light gun to see if I could see the lights. Since I was able to distinguish what they were, he told me that this is what I would have to do to become a pilot and it would have no restrictions.

It has been 6 years since I was told that I could not be a pilot, so I know that I’m behind. Just to make sure that nothing else will hold me back, I signed up to take a medical exam in 2 weeks.

If I had found out that I could still be a pilot in high school, I would not be stuck between a rock and a hard place like I am right now. I am expecting my first baby in 7 months, and I am getting married next week. A pilot’s license is obviously a financial burden, but with that aside, my biggest concern is being able to support my family. I would plan on taking back my bartending job which would give me the income to go to flight school and get the hours I need for a commercial license.

I understand that every situation is different, but I would like to know how long it usually takes to go from getting a commercial pilot’s license to getting a job that will provide for my family? I've read that the average starting salary is around $25,000-$35,000 in the first 3 years of flying regional, but I've also read that pilots are not getting jobs.

After doing some research, I found a school that charges $65,000 for a 5-6 month (150 day) program. I called and spoke to an instructor and here’s what is included in the price:
-Private Pilot’s license
-Instructor License
-Commercial License
-270hrs logged flight time
-115hrs multi-engine flight time
-105hrs single-engine flight time
-50hrs simulator (FTD) time
-Guaranteed job after graduating as an instructor. Working 7 days a week earning $1800-$2000 monthly and 80-100 multi-engine hours per month.

I don’t know if I’m allowed to post names or links for this school so I’ll leave it out. They tell me that they have the highest airline placement for any school, and that until I get hired by an airline, I just keep working and getting flight hours.

I’ve been doing as much research as possible and I know that the first step is passing a class 1 medical. Assuming that I pass, I want to know before I jump into this, that this is a career that I can invest money in which will provide for my family in the future.


I appreciate anyone who has taken their time to read this. If you have any comments or insight on anything that I've said, I would love to hear it.


Thanks,
MGP

block30

Color deficiency hits I believe almost 10% of men, almost no women. Very common. Check out jetcareers.com for their pilot health forum. Also consider flying for fun. Beware of flight school propaganda. They aren't all bad by any means, but it is like any sales pitch-you=$$$. You have come to the right place. Search the forums. Many questions like yours have been asked. Only you can decide. I will always answer PMs (private messages) to the best of my ability. Pilots helping pilots.

CrakPipeOvrheat

Almost everyone on here knows what flight school you are talking about without saying the name. I've flown with guys who went there. I think it is probably fine. If you want to do this be prepared for many years of financial stress.

USMCFLYR

There are numerous threads on APC concerning color deficiencies. You should search them and familiarize yourself with the *real* process. What you need to do for a FAA exam is different than what you needed to do for the Navy Flight Physical.

As far as the school....I also suggest that you search for threads with the school's name in the title. You will find abundant information.

If you want one side of the story - search for posts from SkyHigh or PM him when you get enough posts and he will certainly enlighten you to the future hardships that you are setting yourself up for in the future.

GOOD LUCK!

USMCFLYR

JamesNoBrakes

This right here is what's wrong with our industry. Like anyone can become proficient and experienced enough in 5-6 weeks to TEACH PEOPLE how to do it, let alone PERFORM it? That's not even close to reality. That much information that fast is mostly lost. While I'm sure that you and many people can complete it, it's a waste as far as experience goes. You won't build up the aircraft control and decision making skills in 5-6 weeks, and that is downright dangerous, no matter what the FAA says as far as "minimum hours for certificates".

Be careful of those "gaurentees", they often do not pan out, not to mention there's something wrong with a job where you're stuck earning 1800-2000 when it cost 65,000 to get trained for it...

Realize that if you become a CFI trying to earn that magical 1500, or a regional airline pilot stuck earning 30K year after year, people are going to tell you "you should have known before you got into it". That's not a fair thing to say if you don't really have the information to start with, and the schools will not be forthcomming with it. Do your own research and really find out about the industry and how it works. Maybe the best thing to ALWAYS think about is that aviation is an AMAZING thing, it exists far outside of airlines, there are so many awesome things you can do besides fly for airlines, and if you want to, you can even experience some of the airline-esque operations and things without even being an "airline pilot". Never limit yourself and make sure you believe in what you do.

OceanicPilot

Morv,

You will get varied responses from the pilots here. Most pilots I know got into flying because it was in their blood. We took our first airplane rides and became instantly hooked. Most don't start out saying "Boy, I can make a lot of money as a pilot."

The career potential right now is as follows...In December of this year the pilots who were 60 and got 5 bonus years before they had to retire will start to come off the airline's seniority lists. That will create movement for everyone but whether or not it will facilitate the "pilot shortage" remains to be seen. There will definitely be some hiring at the regionals but with the new rules you will need 1500 hours and an ATP to be an FO. Take advantage of the time and learn a few things as an instructor. How much hiring at the majors in the next few years will depend on how much flying they offload to the regionals to lower their costs and how quickly, if at all, they replace their capacity.

The airline business has always been and will always by cyclical. My advice...If you just love airplanes and can't dream of doing anything else just go for it and don't worry about what anyone tells you.

Ski Patrol

You mention family so consider the following. Additionaly if you do not live in base your QOL will be even worse then mentioned below.

Assumptions
-12 days off/month (which is generous considering the state of the industry) = 18.41 days at work / mo
- 18.41/4 (4 trips /mo) = 4.6 days / trip
-Start at 9 am 1st day & finish 6 pm last day (also generous considering the state of the industry) = 33 hrs for 1st & last day
- 2.6 days * 24 hr day = 62.4 (as 33 hrs accounted for 1st & last day)
- 62.4 + 33 = 95.4 hrs / trip
- 95.4*12 = 381 hrs / month
- 381*12 = 4572 hrs / yr spent at work

Some will say but you sleep during that time....ok fair enough
- 3 days of the 4 you will sleep assume 10 hrs / night. (again generous considering reality)
- 3*10 = 30*4 trips / month = 120 hrs * 12 months = 1440 hrs sleeping/eating.
-4572-1440 = 3,132 hrs gone from your life while at work / year.

The 8 to 5er schedule
- .5 hr commute to & from wk each day + 9 hr day = 10 hrs /day
- 50 hrs / week at work * 52 weeks = 2,600 gone from your life while at work/ year.

Again I was generous in the assumptions favoring the pilot proffession & even excluded commute times on the pilot side of the equation. Then factor all the missed birthdays, plays, recitals, holidays, mtn bike rides/ski days etc. That is why we as pilots are fed up or dilussional.


I've had a long layover...so I came up with another formula enjoy.

Often as pilots we factor the hourly rate *1000 to estimate what our annual salary will be. When factoring time spent at work this salary figure yielded an approximate figure of 28/hr.

hourly rate *.32 and you have your "truer" wage/hr.

(89/flight hour*.32 = 28.48)

50*.32 = 16.00/hr

150*.32 = 48.00/hr

Anything less then 23.00/flight hr means you make less then min wage! Interesting that the # conincides with regional FO pay.

Morv

Thank you for everyone's comments. This forum has a wealth of information, and I've begun refining my searches to get some good answers because of everyone's input. USMCFLYR, those were some good tips.

This was a concern of mine, I didn't know if this was a scam school that pushes pilots or if there were real results.

@ JamesNoBreaks,

sorry that was a typo. I meant 5-6 months. (editing it now)

After looking into what goes into the certificates, I understand what you're trying to say. Even for 6 months of school, the amount of information required for all the certificates mentioned is INTENSE.

I am definitely going into this with eyes wide open. The fine print says that the "guarantee" job is only available for those who complete the "fast-track" program. Basically you have to pass all their tests and get your certificates in 150 days if you start from zero hours 90 days if you have your private pilot's license.

Going back to what JamesNoBrakes brought up, that might be the catch. to retain all the information required to graduate in 150 days, you really have to dedicate your life to the school for 6 months. This makes sense since they offer student housing...

That hits the nail on the head. While I took my first flight all the way until the time when I got home and started doing research, the amount of money that I would be making didn't even cross my mind. Once I started reading, it dawned on me that I'm probably not going to be making as much as I would if I finish law school. My payoff wouldn't be the paycheck, that would be for my family. The way I see it, my payoff would be going to work, and loving what I'm doing.

The money doesn't add up to what they would guarantee you for sure. What I thought would make it worth it is that while working for them I would get 80-100hrs multi-engine time per month. Anywhere else, I would be paying for those hours and it would probably cost me a lot more than I would have, unless I had the time to take it slow and do a couple hours here and there until I get enough hours to get hired for a job with potential for great pay.


After giving it some thought, and talking to some people, I may have an idea how I would proceed in starting off this career.

Very first thing I have to do is obviously pass the medical exam, if not, then I need to rethink... I'll be taking it in 2 weeks.

After passing (hopefully!) I want to wait before jumping into this program that I mentioned above. I think it would be better for me to get a private pilot's license first. the reason for that is because the school only "guarantees" me a job there if I finish the school within a certain time limit. My best shot at doing that is if I already know a good amount of the information. Seeing it for the first time will probably be overwhelming for anyone.

While building flight hours to get into the school with a private license (85 required) I need to study my brain dry so that when I see the theory portion of the program, it's not completely alien to me. I also don't want to be able to pass all the tests and then crash a plane because the information came so fast that after the test nothing was retained.

Any thoughts or comments?

-MGP

Morv

Ski Patrol,

I've done research about the pilot career: days off specifically, and it seems that your information is accurate. As far as the calculations, I had not taken the time to break it down into such detail. Considering those as facts, I think that I will need to make the decision on being a pilot as a family, rather than on my own.

To me, being at work 381hours a month, while doing something I love wouldn't bother me the least. The pay, which is also a factor I'm assuming would increase with seniority. It would only seem selfish to make this decision without everyone involved (my fiancee) being fully aware what this career entails.

Even though this is not what I wanted to hear, the reality of being an airline pilot is exactly what I asked for and I thank you for your time to type this up. At least if this becomes a reality, I'll be able to reply when people say "You should have known before you got into it".

From my understanding, and your numbers, this seems like the reality for a career as an airline pilot (with generous estimates):

>365 days * 24 hrs = 8760 hrs/year
>8760 - 4572 (hours at work)= 4188 (hours out of work)
>4188 / 24hrs = 174.5 days
>174.5 * 9 (hours of sleep) = 1571 (hours spent sleeping at home)
>4188-1571 = 2617 hours at home awake
>2617 / 15 (hours awake/day) = 174 days at home/yr

191 days per year away from home.

-MGP

GoPats

It's already been touched on but I will re-emphasize it: Be careful financially. Flight training is expensive and can be a drain, or a downright anchor, if you don't plan accordingly and remain faithful to your planning. It may be a while before you see "dawn" financially as a pilot.

If you don't plan well at least marry well.