Disheartened Hopeful
11-03-2009, 06:23 AM
#11
intentionally left blank
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Bus Co-Driver
Posts: 284
I had 800 hours when I was hired into a regional. My total outlay for training? Somewhere around $10,000. Most of my time was built, as Ryan suggests, flying planes I worked on.
When you get done staining the deck, post more questions.. and when you get enough posts, PM me. I'm happy to talk.. in fact, shutting me up is the bigger problem sometimes!
When you get done staining the deck, post more questions.. and when you get enough posts, PM me. I'm happy to talk.. in fact, shutting me up is the bigger problem sometimes!
11-03-2009, 06:42 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 394
Just be smart about it. Now is not the time to be taking on that amount of debt, particularly when what you end up with is only the initial step towards a professional flying career.
You are young enough to weather this industry downtime. The only thing we know about the future is that it will require us to pay the usual bills...regardless of whether this industry turns around, you are going to have to pay rent, food, insurance, etc. You seem to have a way to do that now with your A&P. I suggest you keep your feet firmly on the ground.
Secondly...have you looked into the military? It can provide a number of ways to get you to where you want to go...pilot training, educational costs, etc.
Good luck.
11-03-2009, 08:01 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Deja vu?
Good suggestion. When I started out, the military was practically the only route to an airline job, unless you had lots of money for ratings and hour-building. We may be coming full circle.
11-03-2009, 08:53 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Left seat of a Jet
Posts: 514
Hello all, been lurking the site quite often trying to immerse myself in as much information as I can about professional flying. Like everyone, flying is a passion to me. So far I've earned a Bachelor's Degree in Aviation Technologies with a specialization in Advanced Maintenance and Avionics. I'll also soon be a certified A&P. College was great, but I've still got the bug for flying. I'm currently slated to begin flight training in January 2010. After a lot of researching I've found what seems to me to be the best flight school. They've quoted me for PPL-CFII for just under $46,000. 
I'm 23 and have never had more than $1,000 in my bank account at one time. So I know I'm dealing with some serious dough here.
Anyway, after reading thread after thread of angry pilot's who are upset over pay, quality of life, management etc, etc I've just become disheartened over the entire decision. I feel that I'm so far at the bottom of the barrel that I will never find a good flying job. I was very optimistic (yet uninformed) a few months back because my girlfriend introduced me to a friend of the family who is a regional pilot. He feels that if I get through the training and quickly build hours as a CFI he could more than likely have some pull for me with his airline during a 2014 expansion. The only issue there is his airline is, well, "looked down upon" by many people. So the brakes start screeching again. I'm not here to cause a problem, as I'm still mostly ignorant about the entire situation, I just would appreciate honest opinions about how bad it could possibly affect one's young career by making the decision to fly for "said airlines." At a certain point these days it almost seems like you just need to get into the seat, no matter where it may be. It's not fair, but nothing seems to be anywhere right now, aviation or not.
I'd like to venture from that topic however. I guess if anything I'm asking for suggestions on where to go from here. Degree and A&P in hand debt free is where I stand, and it's beginning to seem crazy to go under $46K for a seemingly terrible career path. All I've ever really wanted to is fly, but it's beginning to seem that some things are better left to be desired. What other routes are there besides the Regional Airlines, if any? I guess my ultimate goal would be flying for a Major or flying Business Jets (yeah, who's isn't
). People say the Regional FOs that are flying NOW will never have a chance at those jobs, so my chances must me much lower.
Thanks for any input!
I'm 23 and have never had more than $1,000 in my bank account at one time. So I know I'm dealing with some serious dough here. Anyway, after reading thread after thread of angry pilot's who are upset over pay, quality of life, management etc, etc I've just become disheartened over the entire decision. I feel that I'm so far at the bottom of the barrel that I will never find a good flying job. I was very optimistic (yet uninformed) a few months back because my girlfriend introduced me to a friend of the family who is a regional pilot. He feels that if I get through the training and quickly build hours as a CFI he could more than likely have some pull for me with his airline during a 2014 expansion. The only issue there is his airline is, well, "looked down upon" by many people. So the brakes start screeching again. I'm not here to cause a problem, as I'm still mostly ignorant about the entire situation, I just would appreciate honest opinions about how bad it could possibly affect one's young career by making the decision to fly for "said airlines." At a certain point these days it almost seems like you just need to get into the seat, no matter where it may be. It's not fair, but nothing seems to be anywhere right now, aviation or not.
I'd like to venture from that topic however. I guess if anything I'm asking for suggestions on where to go from here. Degree and A&P in hand debt free is where I stand, and it's beginning to seem crazy to go under $46K for a seemingly terrible career path. All I've ever really wanted to is fly, but it's beginning to seem that some things are better left to be desired. What other routes are there besides the Regional Airlines, if any? I guess my ultimate goal would be flying for a Major or flying Business Jets (yeah, who's isn't
). People say the Regional FOs that are flying NOW will never have a chance at those jobs, so my chances must me much lower. Thanks for any input!
11-03-2009, 09:42 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Middle Seat
Posts: 1,228
The guard and reserve are great places if you don't want to do it full time. They are always lookin for mechanics too.
11-03-2009, 10:04 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,474
You don't have to work for a crappy airline, there are many other ways to build time (135, corporate, skydivers etc.) I worked as an A&P for years before finally getting in the cockpit and never had to fly at the regional level.
Keep yourself out of debt and you will have more flexibility when the right job comes. Don't worry too much about it you have 40+ years until retirement.
Keep yourself out of debt and you will have more flexibility when the right job comes. Don't worry too much about it you have 40+ years until retirement.
11-03-2009, 01:30 PM
#19
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Why not look for a hanger queen, buy her, fix her up yourself, do your initial training in her, then sell her. Not only would training be much cheapers, you might make a few bucks when you sell her. With some searching, it isn't too hard to find a single that "the wife has been bugging me to get rid of" or that is a couple years past annual.
Good luck
Good luck
11-03-2009, 01:56 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 254
Thanks for all the input.
I've thought about buying a plane before. Been on Barnstormers way too much, actually. It's possible, but risky also. What if you somehow junk your prop or your instruments crap out. Huge $$, and an A&P can't touch these as far as major repairs. A guy hangars his 150 at my A&P school. It has been there for almost 2 years because of a cracked hub and a bad rudder. Just getting his rudder repaired by Cessna cost him like $6,000 I think. No clue when the hub will come around or how much he will be out because I think an AD required a complete new set.
Also, I enjoyed overhauling engines in school but you need tons of tools and machines to complete one. Don't need them very often, but things happen. I guess that's where working as an A&P might come in handy. Then you have hangar fees, a/c insurance, raised life insurance (I'm sure) and on down the list. It would be nice to speak to someone who has personally gone down this road. I also know of fractional ownership on aircraft. That would cut cost a lot if I ever chose to do something along those lines. What exactly do flying clubs offer? Do you have to own a plane to become a member, or do they all share several or one a/c?
As far as military goes I can't see myself going full blown Air Force. I don't know anything about the guard and reserve to base an opinion on. It would depend a lot on where I was working.
What is 135 flying? I see it often and apparently am too lazy to google.
Also the FBO's quote broke down the training into 6 payments. This came right off the quote:
To be paid in 6 installments
1- $ 7,440.00 on commencement of training
2- $ 7,440.00 on completion of Private License
3- $ 7,440.00 on completion of X-Country requirements
4- $ 7,440.00 on completion of Instrument Rating
5- $ 7,440.00 on completion of Single Engine Commercial
6- $ 7,440.00 on commencement of Multi-Engine training
What if I were to try and knock these out one at a time? They promote a self-paced program. Here is the course breakdown. Are these prices what I should expect?
Private Pilot Course (FAR 61)
15 Hrs. Ground Training .................... $ 825.00
22 Hrs. Dual C-150/152 $ 3,300.00
20 Hrs. Solo C-150/152 . .. $ 1,900.00
Private Knowledge Test $ 100.00
Examiner Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental for Practical Test $ 190.00
Total Private $ 6,615.00
50 hrs Solo X-Country .. $ 4,750.00
Instrument Rating Course (FAR 61)
15 Hrs. Ground Instruction $ 1,125.00
15 Hrs. Dual C-152 $ 2,550.00
15 Hrs solo practice/safety pilot $ 1,425.00
10 Hrs. Dual Simulator $ 750.00
Instrument Rating Knowledge Test $ 100.00
Examiner Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental for Practical Test $ 285.00
Total Instrument Rating $ 6,535.00
72 hrs Solo X-Country $ 6,840.00
Commercial Pilot Course (FAR 61)
20 Hrs. Ground Instruction $ 1,100.00
10 Hrs. C-172RG Complex Dual $ 2,240.00
5 Hrs. C-150/1522 Dual $ 750.00
10 Hrs. C-152 Solo $ 950.00
Commercial Knowledge Test $ 100.00
Examiner Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental for Practical Test C-152& C-172RG . $ 300.00
Total Commercial Pilot Course $ 5,740.00
Multi-Engine Rating Course
14 Hrs. Ground Training $ 1,050.00
15 Hrs. PA-34 Dual $ 6,000.00
Examiners Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental (Practical Test) $ 650.00
Total Multi-Engine Rating Course $ 8,000.00
Certified Flight Instructor:
20 Hours Ground Instruction $ 1,100.00
10 Hours C-150/152 Dual $ 1,700.00
5 Hours C-172RG Dual $ 1,200.00
C-172RG and C-150/152 Aircraft for Check ride $ 260.00
Examiner Fees $ 300.00
FOI and FIA Knowledge Test Fees $ 240.00
Jeppesen CFI Kit(Books, Study Guides, Oral Exam Prep, etc.) $ 315.00
Total CFI ... $ 5,115.00
I'll leave it at this for now. Again, thanks for your help and opinions.
I've thought about buying a plane before. Been on Barnstormers way too much, actually. It's possible, but risky also. What if you somehow junk your prop or your instruments crap out. Huge $$, and an A&P can't touch these as far as major repairs. A guy hangars his 150 at my A&P school. It has been there for almost 2 years because of a cracked hub and a bad rudder. Just getting his rudder repaired by Cessna cost him like $6,000 I think. No clue when the hub will come around or how much he will be out because I think an AD required a complete new set.
Also, I enjoyed overhauling engines in school but you need tons of tools and machines to complete one. Don't need them very often, but things happen. I guess that's where working as an A&P might come in handy. Then you have hangar fees, a/c insurance, raised life insurance (I'm sure) and on down the list. It would be nice to speak to someone who has personally gone down this road. I also know of fractional ownership on aircraft. That would cut cost a lot if I ever chose to do something along those lines. What exactly do flying clubs offer? Do you have to own a plane to become a member, or do they all share several or one a/c?
As far as military goes I can't see myself going full blown Air Force. I don't know anything about the guard and reserve to base an opinion on. It would depend a lot on where I was working.
What is 135 flying? I see it often and apparently am too lazy to google.
Also the FBO's quote broke down the training into 6 payments. This came right off the quote:
To be paid in 6 installments
1- $ 7,440.00 on commencement of training
2- $ 7,440.00 on completion of Private License
3- $ 7,440.00 on completion of X-Country requirements
4- $ 7,440.00 on completion of Instrument Rating
5- $ 7,440.00 on completion of Single Engine Commercial
6- $ 7,440.00 on commencement of Multi-Engine training
What if I were to try and knock these out one at a time? They promote a self-paced program. Here is the course breakdown. Are these prices what I should expect?
Private Pilot Course (FAR 61)
15 Hrs. Ground Training .................... $ 825.00
22 Hrs. Dual C-150/152 $ 3,300.00
20 Hrs. Solo C-150/152 . .. $ 1,900.00
Private Knowledge Test $ 100.00
Examiner Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental for Practical Test $ 190.00
Total Private $ 6,615.00
50 hrs Solo X-Country .. $ 4,750.00
Instrument Rating Course (FAR 61)
15 Hrs. Ground Instruction $ 1,125.00
15 Hrs. Dual C-152 $ 2,550.00
15 Hrs solo practice/safety pilot $ 1,425.00
10 Hrs. Dual Simulator $ 750.00
Instrument Rating Knowledge Test $ 100.00
Examiner Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental for Practical Test $ 285.00
Total Instrument Rating $ 6,535.00
72 hrs Solo X-Country $ 6,840.00
Commercial Pilot Course (FAR 61)
20 Hrs. Ground Instruction $ 1,100.00
10 Hrs. C-172RG Complex Dual $ 2,240.00
5 Hrs. C-150/1522 Dual $ 750.00
10 Hrs. C-152 Solo $ 950.00
Commercial Knowledge Test $ 100.00
Examiner Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental for Practical Test C-152& C-172RG . $ 300.00
Total Commercial Pilot Course $ 5,740.00
Multi-Engine Rating Course
14 Hrs. Ground Training $ 1,050.00
15 Hrs. PA-34 Dual $ 6,000.00
Examiners Fees (Practical Test) $ 300.00
Aircraft Rental (Practical Test) $ 650.00
Total Multi-Engine Rating Course $ 8,000.00
Certified Flight Instructor:
20 Hours Ground Instruction $ 1,100.00
10 Hours C-150/152 Dual $ 1,700.00
5 Hours C-172RG Dual $ 1,200.00
C-172RG and C-150/152 Aircraft for Check ride $ 260.00
Examiner Fees $ 300.00
FOI and FIA Knowledge Test Fees $ 240.00
Jeppesen CFI Kit(Books, Study Guides, Oral Exam Prep, etc.) $ 315.00
Total CFI ... $ 5,115.00
I'll leave it at this for now. Again, thanks for your help and opinions.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
