SaltyDog

TW,
At UPS we have hired folks your age. Really, there is a plus to airlines hiring folks of different ages. You will recall the big drain of UAL Capts who were all hired within a few years in the 60's. Hiring almost all your newhires at the same age guarantees a big exit of experience on the other end in very short order. Hence, nowdays, HR dept's will not blink an eye at spreading the age demographic to even out the retirements of a new hire class. Best of luck.

lakehouse

Why are you leaving UAL? Your sitting left seat on the wide body, your getting paid much better then the less important bus pilots, and you still got a good pension, did you finally made enough you want to go where people arent miserable and you can talk about money on a domestic jump seat?

throttleweenie

RickT

Yes, I'm left seat, 13 years' worth.

Wide body? Kinda. The 757 is narrow, and is what I fly 70% of the time. The 76 is wide, but they're both considered narrow body at UA. For pay purposes, specifically.

Much better than the 'Bus guys? Not a lot. Are they less important? Not any more so than a guy flying a Brasilia, at least not to me. The mentality at the top considers it more important because if we roll it up, there's going to be more lawsuits. That's all.

Good pension? How about NO pension?
My pension was terminated in '05. Not frozen in place; terminated. If I were to retire at 60 and croak at 80, it is a loss of $2.3m. That was a good pension. Now it's not a pension.
I took a 37% pay cut in '03 in exchange for a promise of preserving our pensions. In '05, I took another 11.8% and lost my pension. Do you think that, given a choice, I'd willingly work for such morally bankrupt management? I have a choice.

A related thing was the ESOP. In '94 we diverted 15.8% of our paychecks and 89% of our 401(k) contribution to ESOP. That was $242,000 in pre-tax dollars that came out of my compensation. In '04, when the ESOP was terminated, I got a settlement check for my 4009 shares. $1099.74. and I had to pay tax on it.
I am supposedly going to get 18% of my former pension from the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation when I retire at 60. The #2 guy there told me, to my face, "unless congress steps in, there's no guarantee you'll get anything." Sound like Social Security? I don't plan on seeing one thin dime from either of those government agencies, and if you're smart, you won't either.

The only retirement I have left is what's in my 401(k) now, plus some rental properties.

"did you finally made enough you want to go where people arent miserable and you can talk about money on a domestic jump seat?"

Yes, except I don't wanna talk about money. I've had enough of that.

I have been getting 11 and 12 days off per month. Recently, I had a sequence that went like this: a 5 day trip, one day off, another 5 day trip, two days off, another 5 day trip, one day off, then a PC. I can fly those because the trips are so inefficient that I don't break any 30 in 7, 1 in 7, or duty time limitations.

I flew the United Shuttle in it's infancy, and we could knock out 7 hours of pay in a 12 hour duty period. With the crappy rigs we have now, I make about 5 hours a day, and until recently, right about the time I got off the 'Bus, we had NO duty rigs on narrow-body planes. They call it the LCO. That stands for Low Cost Operation.

I don't have much confidence in the long term viability of this airline, and neither does the business community.

With that, as a fairly senior dude, when they keep lopping off the bottom of the seniority list, I'm still here while the furloughees are going out and finding decent flying jobs. If or when it finally implodes, where might I fall in the job search pecking order?

My wife makes good money, we have no kids, we have toys, and I believe that in the long run, this will be better.

I don't want to have my destiny controlled by the winds of change within UA, and believe me, that is blown in our faces on a daily basis. A happy work environment is much more important than the almighty buck to me, and that's not in any way meant to say that it's everyone's take on it.

I never made over $50G until I'd been a pilot at UA for 6 years. I know how to live on a budget, and I still live in my F/O house.

Dude, I hear ya. Do you hear me?

Na zdraví

tw

flexman

Throttleweenie, very well said. Good luck with SWA.

throttleweenie

Hey, Flexman, thanks. To all, sorry 'bout the rant, but it is a very misunderstood deal.

I remember talking to one of 8 other crash pad roomies as a new-hire. He'd just upgraded to 727 cap and was back on the commute. The rest of us were new guys, but we'd all read the contract peel to peel whilst killing time waiting for the crew desk to call which would mean we'd have at least a twin bed and some free airplane food.

The guy was pretty financially savvy, but he told me something that sounded very obscure given the language in our contract, but has rung all too true. He told me that none of us should ever plan on seeing a nickel of our pensions. I thought that he was a little paranoid because it SAID, RIGHT IN OUR CONTRACT, signed by our MEC chairman and our CEO, that we had this pension and it'd be there for us.

Dude, don't believe anything except the statement that shows how much money YOU own in your 401(k), IRA, or whatever. In fact, when Midway finally crumbled, their management was able to prevent any pilot from accessing their 401(k) money for a couple years. That is the honesty and good will you should always expect from anyone other than yourself regarding what's yours.

Lesson learned, don't get burned.

tw

Lori Clark

TW,

Age really isn't a factor anymore. Airlines don't have the pension funds anymore so they aren't looking for 20 years of service - it is much more short-sighted.
What they are going to be most concerned about is attitude. There is certainly bitterness running rampant among the legacy folks (albeit warranted) so expect the question of why you want to leave UAL testing for that bitterness. Please....don't get on a soapbox. Address it from a quality of life standpoint.

Did you have your interview yet?

throttleweenie

Lori, thanks for your response. My interview date got changed due to Ike. It will now be in early October.
I talked with the lady who called me about changing the date. We talked about age, experience, hiring practices, and a few other things. She told me that if selected, I'd have my original interview date as my spot in the pool. Very fair, I thought. They do a lot for people that they really don't have to, but that's the way they operate; morally.

I've been through te crap at Unitad, for sure, but I know how counterproductive griping is, both in an interview and in real life. Bitterness makes a person get old faster.

Why I want to work at Southwest is no different than it has always been. They're the best airline to work at in the world, at least in my estimation.

Thank you for having this thread!

tw

Tinkerbell

TW,

May I take the opportunity to congratulate you on your dedication to yourcareer and your courage for wanting to switch now that you are fairly senior. I am not a pilot, yet when I read the posts here on APC I am amazed at what it takes to be a pilot. I can only imagine you must be very good and must love what you do. Of course you would want to try out for the best airline out there and wake up happy in the morning and go to bed happy at night.

I just wanted to let you know that I admire your strength of character. It is inspiring.

Best wishes in this your new adventure and may you succeed and feel happier!

Tink