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Old 11-30-2019, 08:45 AM
  #391  
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Instead of secondary markets. Most wants to use tertiary markets.
(Kidding)
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:26 AM
  #392  
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Macallan Texas to Traverse City, MI, now without all those pesky stops! It's a no fail model!

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Old 12-02-2019, 03:34 PM
  #393  
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Originally Posted by detpilot
Macallan Texas to Traverse City, MI, now without all those pesky stops! It's a no fail model!

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From his track record, I feel like it wouldn’t be wise to underestimate Neeleman. If the economy turns south, it’ll be a death sentence for moxy.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:04 PM
  #394  
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Originally Posted by sidestep
From his track record, I feel like it wouldn’t be wise to underestimate Neeleman. If the economy turns south, it’ll be a death sentence for moxy.
Why?
JetBlue started flying only 18 months prior to 9/11.
They weathered the storm and grew, and did substantially better than most at the time...
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:50 PM
  #395  
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Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Why?
JetBlue started flying only 18 months prior to 9/11.
They weathered the storm and grew, and did substantially better than most at the time...
I agree. New startups at least have the advantage that everyone - FOs AND Captains - is at year one on the pay scales.

How many first, second, or third year captains do you think United or Delta have?
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:05 PM
  #396  
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Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Why?
JetBlue started flying only 18 months prior to 9/11.
They weathered the storm and grew, and did substantially better than most at the time...
Valid point, but I feel like jetBlue @ JFK was an industry anomaly, and a lot has changed since then. The days of ‘rolling a bowling ball down the runway midday’ in any major city is a thing of the past. Second, the major airlines just after 9/11 were extremely bloated cash-hemorrhaging entities. Now a days the majors (even mid-majors) are savvy, nuanced killers that are able to be a lot more strategically reactive than in years past.
Again, I personally wouldn’t bet against Neeleman, but today he doesn’t have a trump card like a vacant JFK. And while his competitors don’t know where he’ll jump, I think it’s a safe to assume they are circling somewhere.
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:33 PM
  #397  
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Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Why?
JetBlue started flying only 18 months prior to 9/11.
They weathered the storm and grew, and did substantially better than most at the time...
JetBlue had the advantage of starting in the biggest and wealthiest city in the United States. And the biggest competitor basically gave them all their flying. AA couldn’t dump the Caribbean and Florida market fast enough. And American yet again screwed themselves out of a profitable hub.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:25 AM
  #398  
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Originally Posted by sidestep
Now a days the majors (even mid-majors) are savvy, nuanced killers that are able to be a lot more strategically reactive than in years past.
No they aren't. They don't even have a fraction of the competition that existed in 2001. Don't let the monopoly economics fool you.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:09 AM
  #399  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
I agree. New startups at least have the advantage that everyone - FOs AND Captains - is at year one on the pay scales.

How many first, second, or third year captains do you think United or Delta have?
I’m wondering when will be the day that pilots realize that pilot compensation will never make or brake an airline whether legacy or startup. It’s simply a drop in the bucket when it comes to the operating expenses of an airline. Largest labor line item and easiest cost to mitigate with fear, yes, but still a drop in the bucket big picture. We are killing ourselves by not changing our perspective.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:36 PM
  #400  
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Originally Posted by cactusmike
JetBlue had the advantage of starting in the biggest and wealthiest city in the United States. And the biggest competitor basically gave them all their flying. AA couldn’t dump the Caribbean and Florida market fast enough. And American yet again screwed themselves out of a profitable hub.
It’s crazy how anywhere Jetblue is big now is only because AA pulled out.
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