Michael9000

Of course they can investigate anyone, but the question was not whether they can request or investigate, but rather "do they have the authority to access my logbook and other information."

This would require a subpoena for any other passenger on board.

ackattacker

The law doesn't say reasonable request. It says you must produce the documents upon request, period. They don't need an excuse, and they can make your life very very hard if they want.

The fact that the pilot checked that you were "crew" on a legal document puts you in a precarious situation. You *really* should have representation and not just wing it/stonewall them.

Edit: I should say that 61.3(l) says "request" and 61.51(i) says "reasonable request". My advice stands.

CFIGUY22

I'm guessing they have a reason. You being in the right seat is reason enough from their standpoint. Though I don't know what kind of aircraft it is. I'd say comply with the request but if you insist to not give them what they requested then get a lawyer and have them write a response as to why. Wouldn't fight that battle alone.

Michael9000

(i) Presentation of required documents. (1) Persons must present their pilot certificate, medical certificate, logbook, or any other record required by this part for inspection upon a reasonable request by—
(i) The Administrator;
(ii) An authorized representative from the National Transportation Safety Board; or
(iii) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.



Did the law change?


I think I'll submit to producing my certificate, medical and logbook. There is nothing that I can imagine being used to my disadvantage. The logbook will demonstrate that I don't have a single hour logged in that aircraft and that will confirm my declaration.

If they push beyond that, I'll turn the dogs on them.

ackattacker

I'm guessing you'll get a lawyer after they slap you with an emergency revocation. Do not fool yourself that this couldn't happen.

Cheaper and easier to get one now.

ClarenceOver

Dude stop trying to weasel out of this. You better get a lawyer NOW. That is the first step. Stop asking technical questions on a free message board and go talk to the lawyer. The longer you wait the more screwed you could be over something that may not matter. I have seen first hand someone lose certificates or get suspended because they waited. I have seen others commit much worse and get off scott free because they went tstraight to a lawyer. Get off this message board and get a lawyer. Period. This isn't the time or place to argue what you think is right. Its the FAA they can screw your life up worse than the dmv.

Michael9000

Relax man. I'm not the PIC and there is no action for them to take against me. I quit flying more than 10 years ago and there is nothing they can do even if they had a violation. They're obviously upset because I refused to recognize their authority under 49 U.S.C. Part 830.5 and 830.15 which do not apply to me. This is their way of getting from me what I otherwise wouldn't give voluntarily.

If they had simply asked me to provide an explanation, I would have. But they insisted on trying to get me to fill out FORM 6120 which I refused. Now they get flight time from my logbook but nothing for an explanation. How backwards is that?

When I read the pilots explanation on form 6120, I couldn't stop laughing. It was written like a 10 year old fool who was doing everything to avoid being responsible. I'm certain that the NTSB will find him at fault eventually but, they're not gonna get much help from him.

ClarenceOver

If you aren't flying then what are you asking? if there is nothing to take what does the outcome even matter?

Michael9000

1. My question is in the first post.
2. My post did not include a claim to "matter".

Fly Boy Knight

1. Most have already answered your question (see additional reasoning below) and...
2. If you don't have/need a license anymore and don't care what happens to you..... then don't do a thing ......but remember, the FAA has the authority to fine you up to $50,000 for violating stuff (maximum "civil" penalty that can be levied by an executive agency) so if you don't have a license to take suspend/revoke....they could fine you as a means of enforcing a punishment for not submitting to something you are required to submit to. You might include THAT as a "matter" to be interested in.

61.3(l) says you have to submit your certs to the FAA / NTSB if they request. They have requested, you must do it or risk violation. If they violate you, the could go after you for a fine.

They DO have the authority to force you to show them your pilot certificate, medical, and logbook (Side note: you are only required to keep track of times used to prove currency and anything used towards getting a license so.....only show them those times. Write em on a napkin if you want).

Since if you don't, it will be a clear violation of 61.3(l), and unless you want to fight the FAA in front of an NTSB Adimistrative Law Judge (Enforcement action appeal process), I'd present them and not jerk them around. I am not a lawyer or an FAA person, but I'd say the NTSB ALJ is going to uphold the FAA's actions because it is pretty clear.

With all that said, they do NOT have the authority to make you SAY or ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS WHAT-SO-EVER!!!!! Walk into the FSDO, say "As per 61.3(l), I am presenting my pilot certificate, medical, and logbook." If they then ask you any questions, you simply say "I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present."