Log PIC in right seat with full type.
07-08-2012, 12:45 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Have you not read thru this thread....dear god man...it is plain as day.
07-08-2012, 08:21 AM
#22
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,406
When you fill out an airline application, they are usually pretty explicit as to what they want you to count for PIC...take that literally.
07-08-2012, 06:52 PM
#23
Snakes & Nape
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: B-767 Captain
Posts: 775
Same Song, Third Verse
PIC is "Pilot in Command" i.e. who signs for the Jet! Who is ultimately in Charge.
The only time you can LOG PIC is when you are the Captain of Record.
Now if you are a Check Airman, you can LOG PIC from the right seat when you are giving IOE or a Check Ride.
Just because you are typed, does not mean you are PIC. If you are the Sole manipulator of Controls you can log the Stick Time as FP (First Pilot) but not PIC.
The only time you can LOG PIC is when you are the Captain of Record.
Now if you are a Check Airman, you can LOG PIC from the right seat when you are giving IOE or a Check Ride.
Just because you are typed, does not mean you are PIC. If you are the Sole manipulator of Controls you can log the Stick Time as FP (First Pilot) but not PIC.
RedeyeAV8r is absolutely correct and that should be the end of this discussion....for this week, until it's raised again next week. If you didn't sign for the aircraft, you can't log PIC under 14 CFR Part 121. Period. What did we do on international flights with an augmented crew or even a double augmentation ? Everyone log PIC ? I don't think so.
07-08-2012, 09:00 PM
#25
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
I can't believe how many times this question surfaces.
RedeyeAV8r is absolutely correct and that should be the end of this discussion....for this week, until it's raised again next week. If you didn't sign for the aircraft, you can't log PIC under 14 CFR Part 121. Period. What did we do on international flights with an augmented crew or even a double augmentation ? Everyone log PIC ? I don't think so.
RedeyeAV8r is absolutely correct and that should be the end of this discussion....for this week, until it's raised again next week. If you didn't sign for the aircraft, you can't log PIC under 14 CFR Part 121. Period. What did we do on international flights with an augmented crew or even a double augmentation ? Everyone log PIC ? I don't think so.
Whether or not a company/insurer/employer chooses to accept said flight time is entirely different.
07-08-2012, 10:16 PM
#26
Are we there yet??!!
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,010
Of course he was telling everybody what he was doing was completely legal. When UA did the 'ole logbook inspection they didn't agree with his "interpretation" and he was shown the door about 10 mins into the interview.
07-09-2012, 01:47 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,576
When I flew the B777 (of which I am typed) from the left seat for half the flight, I was third or fourth-in-command. I logged it as SIC because my logbook doesn't have a column for TIC or FIC. Don't tell anyone!
07-09-2012, 11:44 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 674
While I agree logging PIC is when you sign for the airplane unless your a check airman....a few check airman I asked said that you could log PIC if your sitting SIC on a flight but typed...just trying to make straight a mess of input ! It seems OK unless the place your applying specifically says the time you signed for the bird.
07-10-2012, 12:03 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,733
To straighten out the inputs you have have to understand that per the FARs there is NO connection between being the PIC and LOGGING PIC time (except that the PIC can obviously log the time as PIC.) However what most people interviewing a pilot for a job will want to see a record of their time AS the PIC. So what you have to decide is who are you making the logbook for? You, the FAA or some future job?
07-10-2012, 07:03 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
http://tinyurl.com/7tdt75s
On the main question, I keep hearing "It's oranges!" "No! It's apples!"
The question is what are you counting the time for?
If it's for FAA certificates, ratings and currency, 61.51 controls and so long as rated for category, class (and type if required), you may log PIC any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls. Period. Been that way for decades.
If, on the other hand, you are counting it for a specific job, well, every employer is absolutely entitled to decide what it wants to count for its experience requirements. If airline A says it only counts "signed for an aircraft with more than 180 HP and blue trim at night over water" as 'PIC'" you'd better be prepared to report your data in that way.
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