PearlPilot

Did the FAA change the definition of a cross country flight within the last 2 years? When I got my PPL in 2009, a cross country was a flight that was at least 50 n.m. distance. I've heard mixed opinions about this subject since last year. I had the same discussion during my CFI checkride with the FAA examiner. We referred to Part 1 (definitions) of the AIM and tried to find a definition for "cross country flight," but found none. We read 61.93 and decided that a cross country flight consists of a straight line distance of 25 n.m. I am not sure if this is accurate.

For the life of me I cannot find a definition in the AIM that defines a cross country flight. Is it 25 or 50?

Perhaps the confusion arises from 61.313 part (a). which states the requirements for a sport pilot certificate. Part (a) states that the 75 n.m. total cross country flight must have landings at a minimum of 2 points with one segment of the flight consisting of a distance of at least 25 n.m.

Then one is to assume that for a Private, Instrument, or Commercial pilot (or candidate) a cross country is 50 n.m. and for a Sport pilot it is 25 n.m. Am I interpreting this correctly?

rickair7777

The definitions have not changed. I THINK (but am not certain) that the various XC definitions were spread out in the FARs, but they recently consolidated them in one place...61.1

There are different definitions for student pilot, ATP, and part 135...

61.1 Defines XC as any flight with a landing at point B. It includes several caveats to that definition...
1) A-B must be > 50NM for the XC to count towards the PPL, CPL, or IR.
2) For the ATP, no landing is required, but the distance must be 50NM. This is relief for military pilots who often fly very long missions but return to the base they started from.

Part 135 falls back on the base definition, ie you have to land at point B but there is no minimum distance.

61.93 is something else... Student pilots cannot go more than 25 NM from base without training and endorsement. That is a limitation, not a definition of XC.

NoyGonnaDoIt

The catch (confusion) is that there is no uniform definition of a cross country flight. If you go through the 61.1 definitions of cross country (in the FAR, not in the AIM) you'll see that the definition changes depending on what you want to count it for.

The "base" definition - navigation from a takeoff airport to a landing airport or "point to point" counts for certain things (Part 135 minimums is one), for most other uses 61.1 gives you restrictions, such as a required landing more that 50 nm from the original departure for all part 61 certificates and ratings except the ATP (where the landing is not required although the distance is).

Then, on top of that, certain certificates and ratings have "special" cross country requirements. The private and commercial certificate both contain special cross countries with special requirements. So does the dual cross country for the IR. As you've already noticed 61.313 requires a 75 NM one for the sport pilot.

It can get confusing (and some people go unnecessarily crazy about the bookkeeping) but the way I think of it is to avoid using the term "definition" with something that has so many. Rather I think the answer to "what counts a cross country?" Has to be answered by another question, "what are you using it for." You start with 61.1 and then go to the part of Part 61 that deal with what you're trying to accomplish.

NoyGonnaDoIt

Depends on the definition of "recently." If I'm not mistaken, it was part of the large 1997 Part 61 revision. That's pretty recent to me, not necessarily to someone in their 20's.

Yes, they used to be completely spread out and the FAA consolidated a common group of them in 61.1, leaving special situations for certain certificates and ratings with those certificates and ratings.

PearlPilot

It is very confusing, that's for sure. I think it is safe for me to use 50 n.m. for Private, Commercial and Instrument students.

rickair7777

Probably best to use >50NM until you get your ATP, then go with point A-B.

Most pilots will get the 500 for the ATP with point A-B ops but if you do something special with a lot of RTB ops, you may need to log point A-point A > 50 NM towards your ATP.

After ATP just log point A-B.

PearlPilot

Thank you gents appreciate it. On another related subject, I was told by an instructor about a loophole regarding logging cross country time as a CFI (towards the ATP requirement). I have never heard of it and did not question the theory. I am now wondering if it's accurate. The loophole goes something like this: "As long as you are a CFI giving dual instruction to a student and land at any airport other than the departure airport, regardless of distance, you can log that time as cross country time for your ATP"

NoyGonnaDoIt

The CFI who told you that is incorrect. While a CFI most likely can log all dual cross countries as his own, the requirement for the ATP are specific - they have to be >50 NM although you don't have to have a landing. If you're wondering why, it's a tip of the hat to our service airmen who might take off from a carrier or base, fly for a reconnaissance or fighter or bombing run and then return.

Perhaps the CFI who told you that was thinking of meeting Part 135 requirements.

PearlPilot

Thanks NoyGonnaDoIt, I didn't think it a valid statement either. It would be so much easier if the regulations were not so confusing...