snippercr

I had a student point me to this thread regarding logging PIC with an SIC type
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/av...-sic-type.html

And it is clear you cannot without a PIC.

However, he brought up this interesting scenario. Let's say pilot A worked for a regional carrier and eventually upgraded to left seat with a PIC type in some RJ. Tough times hit and Mr.A gets put on the street. He gets hired at another carrier as an FO.

Can he log PIC time when it's his leg? In that case would it be considered "sole manipulator of the controls"? Or is it because type requires 2 crew only one can log PIC, regardless of type rating.

If he can log PIC during that time, can the CA also log PIC? Clearly in this situation, there is only one "acting" PIC (the captain) but 2 logging PIC - similar to a "safety pilot" thing.

That was my interpretation of it but as a simple part 91 CFI, those higher regs are a bit more elusive to me. Thanks for any input.

PW305

Slice

You can log PIC as sole manipulator from either seat. However, when you go to interview at another airline almost all will discard FO time logged as PIC. The PIC for career advancement purposes is the guy who signs the release and/or logbook before the flight. You're not gonna fool anyone on an interview board trying to bypass the line...

Kenny

I don't have a copy of the FAR/AIM or 121 regs in front of me but I'm pretty sure when it comes to 121 Ops, only the person who signs the release can log PIC.

NoyGonnaDoIt

There is not one single word anywhere in Part 121 that talks about who may log PIC time. Nor is there anything in 61.51 that says, "except for operations under Part 121...."

==============================
61.51(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-

(i) When the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;
==============================

Simple, clear, to the point. Where people continue to find imaginary exceptions is something I've never been able to figure out.

JSanders

ok so when I get above FL28 and required to be on auto pilot I guess that means I can just log that time in the aircraft logbook?

rickair7777

The pilot flying is allowed to log time as sole manipulator while using the autopilot. The regs don't specify exactly how you manipulate the controls, so doing via the FCP is OK.

USMCFLYR

So in cruise flight....both people can/do manipulate the dials for the autopilot correct?

USMCFLYR

NoyGonnaDoIt

Sure hope not, at least not any more than both pilots can/do manipulate the stick and rudder.

rickair7777

No, generally just the PF (pilot flying). He is considered to be manipulating the FC via the Flight Control Panel (FCP) which controls the FD, which the AP follows in turn.

To further confuse things, when hand-flying with FD guidance, the pilot-not-flying (PNF) operates the FCP, which controls the FD, which the PF then follows using manual control inputs. Not sure how you would log that technically (it doesn't happen too often, usually you turn off the FD when hand-flying)