down2mins

Evening all,

Bear with me on this one and please let me know if you can help out. I'm trying to determine if I would be legal to act as PIC of a Part 121 flight under the following conditions. I thought I knew the answer at first, but the more I look at the regs, it becomes quite a gray area.

Upgrade Ride: 10/2008
Line Check: also 10/2008

Recurrent MV/LOE (PC): 10/2009


Am I legal to operate, as PIC, on 11/01/09?

121.401b states: "Whenever a crewmember or aircraft dispatcher who is required to take recurrent training, a flight check, or a competence check, takes the check or completes the training in the calendar month before or after the calendar month in which that training or check is required, he is considered to have taken or completed it in the calendar month in which it was required."

----Initially on this, I thought it meant you had a grace month, but for the next one due, your original required month still stands. Sort of like how you can overfly a 100hr by 10 hours, but the next 100 hr is still due 100hrs from the original time due. However, rereading it makes me think it is not consent for a grace month, so much as it is there to prevent delaying a required check every year.... I hope this makes sense...?


121.440 states:
a) "No certificate holder may use any person nor may any person serve as PIC of an airplane unless, within the preceding 12 calendar months, that person has passed a line check in which he satisfactorily performs the duties and responsibilites of a PIC in one of the types of airplanes he is to fly." The rest does not apply or affect my question

----So, according to the line check reg, it says 12 calendar months, period. No where in here does it talk about a grace month.
----Then there's also the argument of what "preceding" means. Does it mean if you're in November, that November doesn't count because "preceding" the current month is October, so October is where the count begins back 12 months?



Sorry for the rambling, hopefully you can see my frustration/confusion. Between the 2 regs, I'm torn. Can't find anything in the Ops Specs, etc....
My best guess is that, no, I am not legal to operate the flight on 11/1/09 because I have not received a line check by 10/31/09. However, I can get current by completing a line check in 11/2009, but my next one is still due in 10/2010.

What are your thoughts?

rickair7777

121.440 sets the periodicity of the line check.

121.401b modifies that periodicity (and those for PC's and recurrent) by allowing early/late grace.

You should be good. Grace allows flexibility, but the FAA does not want operators to abuse it by always doing late grace and effectively extending their periodicity to 13 months. They also don't want to penalize an operator who uses early grace.

That is why your base month remains the same for next year if you utilize early/late grace.

PerfInit

Did you train under AQP? It kinda sounds like you did. Check 14 CFR Part 121, Subpart Y, which has different requirements than N&O. I don't have the regs handy, but I think I remember a 24 month "qualification cycle" in AQP. A line check is part of that cycle, but perhaps it does not have to be done right at 1 year/12 cal months + grace?

down2mins

Rick, Thanks for the insight. That's what I wanted to believe, but like I said, it is just such a gray area. The fact it doesn't say that it's a grace month or that a line check can be "overflown" is what was holding me back.

No, not AQP...yet.

Twin Wasp

I wouldn't even call it a grey area. 121.440 says you have to have a line check within the preceding 12 calendar months. 121.401 says if you complete the training or check a month early or late, it counts as if you took the check in the due month. So you don't lose or gain a month if you complete the event early or late.

Look at 121.441 -

(1) For a pilot in command, a proficiency check within the preceding 12 calendar months and, in addition, within the preceding 6 calendar months, either a proficiency check or the simulator training.

Same thing, no mention of completing the training/checking early or late. The verbage in 121.401 is what gives you the flexibility.

Phantom Flyer

In my opinion, NO, you are not legal to operate a flight under FAR Part121.

Once again, the twin radials win out and I believe Twin Wasp is 100% correct. (Never argue with a radial guy !).

Seriously, 121.441 is the "gotcha" here as he points out. Not only do you have to have a Proficiency Check within the preceding 12 calendar months but one must also have either a Proficiency Check or approved simulator training within the previous 6 calendar months. This is dependent on your FAA approved training/checking program. I didn't see any notation as to a PC or approved sim training since your last recurrent on 10/2009.

Just my two cents, which are both Canadian pennies !

G'Luck Mate

rickair7777

Oh, yeah you do need something within six months for PIC. I was addressing whether grace would apply to a line check (it does).