Thedude

Its been quite a few yrs since I have been faced with a problem like this but the way I seem to remember it is...you can have the SA or metar missing but can using an FT for a substitute. Assuming you will be arriving during the time the forecast is valid.

Phantom Flyer

I don't think so. Check Powerful1 posting, check your FOM and more importantly.....CHECK YOUR OPSPECS. They are your "bible" and you are bound by what's contained therein.

G'Luck Mates

ovrtake92

I ran into this problem a time or two up in them Wyoming parts. If the ATIS or AWOS/ASOS you have is less than an hour old, you are good to go. Otherwise you need a qualified observer on the ground. This is why airlines like Lakes train ground personel to be qualified wx observers. It is a pain when the weather is clear and a million but it must be done this way per the regs. Also I agree with whoever said that you can just land any way if its the safest option. ie low fuel or whatnot but that goes with anything. Thats when the big book goes out the window and you have to step up to the plate and be a captain.

Milk Man

Part 121, the weather must be reporting or you can not land. even if its a beautiful day

kronan

Still can't find the FAR approved expiration time for weather.

Do know I can't dispatch unless the forecast or observation is good enough to land at my destination
FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.613 effective as of 11/18/1967

And all 121.655 says is the latest weather is controlling.

FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.655 effective as of 04/01/1965

And if VFR isn't legal for 121 ops, why is there a section outlining the mins?
(Doesn't preclude a particular company from restricting VFR flight to a non-towered airport, but, the feds are cool with it)
FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.649 effective as of 09/16/1993

To me, barring a weather or forecast observation below mins. The Crew should be legal to commence the approach, then make a determination about whether the weather is sufficient to land under Cat 2 or better approach mins.
Cat 3 mins and you should be going around even if you see the runway, unless the Capt determines that landing is the safest option and uses his/her emergency authority to land.

When I'm the PIC, just not going to divert if the inflight vis is 30+miles just because the ASOS is broken

joepilot

Reference to dispatch weather minimums: Domestically you must have a forecast of minimums to dispatch, under Flag rules you are allowed to have a forecast of zero/zero, provided you have an alternate. (At "my house" two alternates are required, with fuel requirements to the farther alternate.)

Joe

Twin Wasp

There is no "expiration" time for a wx ob. The ob reports the wx at the time it was taken. The NWS has standards for when a new ob has to be taken. You could have a "SPECI" report 2 minutes after the METAR if the wind swings enough, a thunderstorm starts or ends, the ceiling lifts or drops a given amount, etc. With an observer in place, it's implied that the reported wx is valid until a new report comes out. Without the coverage, you have no idea what the weather IS, just what it WAS.

And if VFR isn't legal for 121 ops, why is there a section outlining the mins?

It's just not legal for you, you don't have paragraph B51 in your OPS SPECs.

What's a Forecast Observation? If the current wx is at or above your minumums for the approach, you shoot it and see what happens. If you've got IIIb in you OPS SPECs, it's a IIIb approach and the plane and crew are good for IIIb, you'll never see the runway till you touch down.

kronan

If it's not legal for me, why is it approved in my FOM?

Just because something is unusual, doesn't mean it's prohibited. FARs give the Capt a ton of leeway to safely operate a flight.
If you, as the Capt, feel landing a plane at a non-towered airport without a vis report is beyond your capabilities, then don't do it.

I don't think there's a company out there that's going to relish the monkey wrench you just threw into the system. But, I'll gladly open the pocketbook if the company over-reacts and tells you to hit the street.
(Especially since most non-towered ops are in the midnight-5 timeframe--have to think a divert might put you beyond duty limits, limited turn possibilities, and how do you get an "approved" weather guy out to the field to fix the problem you diverted for. Can't you just see the film running on CNN-certainly shouldn't consider the media as part of your decision making. Although I guarantee the company will consider it and likely overreact.)

Twin Wasp

I thought you were asking the question, if you've got VFR in your FOM and OPS SPECs then it's not illegal.

If you, as the Capt, feel landing a plane at a non-towered airport without a vis report is beyond your capabilities, then don't do it.

I don't think it's beyond my capabilities, I just think that without declaring an emergency first, it's illegal.

Especially since most non-towered ops are in the midnight-5 timeframe--
having to think a divert might put you beyond duty time limits, limited turn
possibilities, and how do you get an "approved" weather guy out to the field

Having spent 25+ years checking in at sunset and getting to the hotel after sunrise, I've got a pretty good idea of how the ATC system works at night. And I've checked into a hotel a few times at 2am for 8 hours. If I only divert to an airport with WX at 2 or 3 in the morning, I think there will be WX at 10 in the morning (except ILN.)