ERAUdude

Okay, I know it's not my job as an instructor to dig into the regs. Only to know them and reference them. However, I find myself in a little situation.

I teach at a part 61 school so the students are limited to instrument single engine, then they have the option to go into commercial single or commercial multi/instrument.

My question is....Does going for a commercial single as the initial and flying all the cross countries in a single engine, satisfy the needs for a commercial multi add-on? In 61.129(c), it says that everything needs to be done in a multiengine aircraft, but I've heard that if it's an additional class rating, then the cross countries are already done and need not be done again. I read that and assume that regardless, it has to be done in category and class. Now, since my current comm. multi is not rated, he needs a minimum of 10 hours solo. Has anyone heard of "supervised solo" where me, as an instructor, go with the student, just not log dual given?

I also reference 61.63 and it only talked about receiving endorsements and acquiring the flight time requirements.

rotorhead1026

Normally I operate on the principle of "if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything". Sometimes, though, one just has to speak up ... I was going to give a more detailed answer to the previous post, then I saw this gem.


You're joking, right? <<<<<sigh>>>>> Are you one of those guys who sends two students out together on one solo cross-country so they can both log the time?

Since when? In any case you're failing on both counts (although I'm guessing at exactly what you mean by "dig").

Start with 61.87 and 61.89.

Oh, yeah. 61.129(c) refers to helicopters.

Sorry, all. We all have our hot buttons and this young man just pressed one of mine.

floridaCFII

No... I think he's talking about this FAA exception for people who get their CPL initial in a multi. Because no insurance will let a student solo a twin, the CFI goes along but just sits there, and the pilot logs "supervised PIC" for the flight to complete the long solo X/C requirement for the CPL rating.

ERAUdude

FloridaCFII knows what I was talking about. I know of a guy who did that and it worked out for him.

Rotorhead, what I meant by "dig" was more along the lines of interpretation. I do not think it's right for me to interpret regs since the inspectors that make their way to my work seem to be very bureaucratic (sp?). Jeez, I didn't think a simple question of whether or not Comm. Single cross countries could substitute for Comm. Multi could turn somewhat hostile.

And no, I by no means would ever think of sending 2 solos together (single or multi) and let them both log the time. If you read a little further, you would've seen that I included that I (the instructor) ride along and just not log dual given. Slip of the finger by the way on the reg reference *(61.129(b)).

rotorhead1026

I never heard of it but stand corrected. I apologize and turn my flamethrower off! Napalm is so passe, anyway. (How do you put a tilde in this editor?).

Because, believe it or not, it been done fairly recently ... no, wasn't me.

Yeah, they are, but they will be no matter what. Best to know as much as you can - and circumstances may FORCE you to interpret in the face of one of those fellows.

Actually I'm hoisted on my own petard since I never heard of this "supervised PIC" . I'd like to know more about where it's being done, too. Sounds kinda bogus, but you have to do what you have to do, I guess. Yes, it would seem the CFI would log PIC time, but not dual given. Then again, what do I know?

Again, my most humble and groveling apologies. Maybe the FAA should read 61.87 and 61.89. Sorry ... again!

ERAUdude

quite alright dude. Anyone else care to chime in?

rotorhead1026

Actually, yeah, is anybody really doing this other than this one student?


Going straight to a commercial MEL doesn't seem to be cost-effective vis-a-vis SEL then the MEL class add-on. The only thing I could figure is some sort of foreign program that wants its graduates to have a bit more multi time. What gives here? Any cost numbers?

ERAUdude

One of my other students wants to do it this way as well. We do have good insurance on the multi for renters with PVT certs at least. Solos may be different though. Maybe I should just run it by my boss

WmuGrad07

At WMU if you do the com MEL first, near the end of the course you log Duties of PIC, but it's also dual given because the instructor is still sitting there so you can't exactly not log dual. How would you log it any different when the instructor is clearly the actual PIC. I think many schools do it this way if you do the commercial Multi first.

Mason32

agreed, some interesting reading can be found on enforcement and accidents when a CFI is on board the aircraft. Typically, the FAA, and NTSB, hold that the CFI is PIC.... so, while the regs may have a grey area where we are letting CMEI folks fly with CFI's going along for the ride, it certainly brings into question of the intent of the reg based upon prior rulings and decisions.

While many FSDO's may turn a blind eye to getting their 10 hours with the CFI in the plane, I'm also equally sure that other FSDO's may not accept it. My suggestion would be that since there is grey area in the reg, where the action is not prohibited, but prior rulings have held the CFI to be PIC, I'd contact the FSDO for your area and get a letter in writing saying the practice is acceptable. Should the unthinkable happen, it would also weigh on the CFI's side that the FSDO previously stated that this was acceptable and that the student was acting as PIC.