rotorhead1026

I've learned a lot myself ... but it sure seems to be the more expensive way to go.

For all that - it would be nice to have someone chime in who actually did this or had a student who did this. The subject would then be officially beaten to death!

rotorhead1026

For PPL's, whoever manipulates the controls logs the pic (I'm assuming "appropriately rated", etc.). Various strange hypothetical situations can be contrived (two-pilot airplane, etc), but for the basic two guys / gals flying around in a 172 this is pretty much the basic principle. If the total time in two hours, the total of the two pilot's pic should be that.

What actually happens? They both log the two hours, of course ;)

ERAUdude

Just talked to the Chief Flight Instructor, and the way we concluded it was...

If my student is doing his initial commercial in a multi, with no private multi rating, "supervised solo" is okay to do. As long as I, the instructor, sit down/be quiet. I would log all time except dual given. The student would log all time except dual given, he would log PIC provided he is the sole manipulator of the controls. I can be there to essentially meet insurance requirements.

The cost issue is huge though going multi first with no private, which is where I need to talk another student out of doing it this way. Also turns out that an additional class rating has no time requirements, it's just at the instructor's discretion.

rotorhead1026

Exactly. Again I'd like to hear from someone who has firsthand knowledge, partly because I don't know WHY someone wants to spend all that extra money.

Years ago, before you had to demonstrate some level of instrument proficiency on the checkride, people were adding ME ratings with as little as six hours dual. Awful. I don't think much of that is going on anymore. Hope not, but the point is there's no minimum requirement except "proficiency".

WEACLRS

A couple of different questions where asked. Here are the relevant FAR's:

If you are just adding a multi-engine rating to an existing commercial certificate, you do not need to meet the cross country requirements listed in 61.129 as you already did them for the single commercial. A class rating (multiengine) added to an existing category (airplane) is covered under 61.63(c). It only requires an endorsement of competence and proficiency and a practical test. However, if you do the initial commercial training in a multiengine airplane, you would need to do the cross-country trips in a multiengine airplane.

An instructor may be in a multiengine airplane while the student meets the requirement for 10 hours of solo (61.129(4)). The FAA is aware that insurance companies are not generally going to allow a student pilot to operate a multiengine airplane solo during training. The regulation was designed to provide relief for this fact. The instructor is expected to supervise, not teach. He is the PIC for the flight as defined in part 1.1. If there is an incident or accident, he will be responsible. The student may log the time as PIC as is allowed by 61.51(e)(4)(i).

The safety pilot scenario has received a lot of discussion on this forum. Just do a search on Safety Pilot or 91.109. However, one point. While the flying pilot is not flying under the hood (ie, taxing, initial t/o, and below minimums for landing), the safety pilot cannot log PIC. So on a typical two hour flight, the pilot flying would log 2.0 hours, but the safety pilot would only log 1.7 or so.