Originally Posted by Polarfr8dog

First, I think this topic DOES belong on the Newhire forum as it's gives potential candidates a way to view the ins and outs from a line pilot point of view. Having said that, I find AtlasSlave's comment very disturbing and here's why:

I don't consider myself a divider IF the union leadership is doing something behind the backs of the membership that only represents a chosen few and sort of reminds me of "backdoor" deals that WERE done with the JCBA. The profit sharing BS is just one of them I heard straight from the horse's mouth where he happened to be out of the office when some of the guys decided to vote on it and that way they new it would pass. But that's in the past.

We not only owe it ourselves but to each and every crewmember to take an interest into what our elected leadership is doing and if you don't agree with something by ALL MEANS question it.

An awesome read on this very subject is The Forgotten 500 by Gregory A. Freeman. And yes, it is Non-Fiction (true). For those of you that won't take the time to read it in a nutshell during World War II, a bunch of Airmen bailed out into Yugoslavia. At the time there were two different leaders wanting control over that country after the war. Well, there were moles established in the English intelligence offices that steered Britain towards the Communist leader and supplies were cut off from the leader that was helping save and take care of these Airmen. Eventually, everyone was rescued but only because of secret operations to get it done and avoid the Germans. Again, a very good read to show how if you don't question your leadership things can go awry.

As I said earlier, I'm not a divider but a person that will stand up and hold the line. There are a few here that know me personally and know I stand behind my Union. However, as the saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And just because they're your elected leaders doesn't mean you have to follow them down the proverbial path. What kind of great country would the United States be if our ancestors agreed with everything England wanted way back in the day. Did they call them dividers??? Nope, think they called them patriots and stood up for their beliefs of freedom of religion, separation of church and state to name a few.

In Solidarity

Originally Posted by AtlasSlave

AQP will bring rules on the process that currently are sorely lacking. V1 cut and you fail or do you get another chance or even some training depends on the time remaining or even the individual Sim Check Airman. Under AQP it is train to proficiency even during the validation of maneuvers period, much more appropriate at this level of the game and does not generate pink slips like the process in place now. Just like the other major airlines in the industry. I agree we are not paid enough to go to training, and it must be addressed in the next contract.

A divider is one who disagrees with the leadership and actively works against those duly elected officials empowered by the membership. Anyone is, obviously, welcome to disagree. When a member takes on work for the leadership and then actively, and inappropriately releases privileged information, that person is a divider due to the seeds of doubt that are sown into the membership from a person the membership considers to be in a position of trust. If a person does not agree with the leadership, fine, but do not take on a position of responsibility and then actively work against the official leadership from within! Do your work, follow the CBA and have your opinion, but do not work against what is after all YOUR leadership too. It breaks our solidarity and no group can afford it; especially not ours.

PLEASE start a new thread Cargowannabe....I am new to posting and would likely mess it up.

Originally Posted by C5nwhaleguy

BTW, Surverys are great but individual voting is better. Surveys aren't worth the keyboard strokes until they are put to an Entire membership vote! thats what the guys who've had contracts for 50 years wanted and have. Power in the hands of the few is a scary concept and the elder atlas guys should have learned that by now.

Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat

You should be upset at your own inability to research facts before you make posts with half baked information. There are several plans, NONE of which are controlled by the Teamsters that are in excellent shape and extremely well funded.

Because the company does not control them as with older, traditional airline plans, they don't "go away" in bankruptcy like traditional plans controlled by companies.

If the ExCo is looking, they are likely looking at Western Conference and or the Defined Benefits Plans. Both are very secure and have guaranteed payouts because they cannot be used by an airline or group as collateral for anything.

The "corruption" talk is cute and may make someone out to be the BMOC at the bar, but to people who understand, it just makes you out as someone who likes to hear themselves talk.

For all the expertise being floated about lately and referencing other carriers CBA's, it is interesting to note that the experts have missed the fact that those carriers have had contracts in place for as many as 50 years in some cases and the place they are now is nowhere near where they were in their second contract; let alone a first combined contract. The experts see current day and assume it's always been that way.

Before anyone goes shooting down a pension plan, they should first look at the plan being considered, time to vesting and payout at regular or early retirement.

And for someone...anyone...who claims to be connected or doing union work to go out and leak half baked and inaccurate information about what may be in process...that's pathetic. Anyone who has ever done serious union work knows full well that discussions on issues are never linear; they take many twists and turns before an outcome is reached.

Want to disagree with the leadership? Fine. Do it with facts, not rumors you can't back up. And have the backbone to stand up, put your name and face with the charges and defend them in public instead of behind a keyboard and avatar.

This place has seen enough of that over the years and doesn't need any more. If you don't like the place, leave. Plenty of folks said more than once that it's a different type of flying. It's clear that a lot of folks have come here for a paycheck and a rating, waiting for a legacy job to open up so they can go fly a 3/4 schedule.

Go. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Go smile and do the shuck and jive for managements that roll up and down with the economy, chasing the bubble. What they have now, they will give back in ten years or less when the economy cycles as it always does.

Meanwhile back at Atlas they'll still have a management team that figured out how to run an airline without putting all their financial eggs in one basket. And a stronger, mature third or fourth contract and stable growth that is not tied to the traveling public and their disposable income...or lack thereof.