744driver

And it is one of a long list of items discussed at breakfast tables, and other venues around the world!!...

John Carr

And hopefully it comes along in the process of "CBA maturity"

744driver

Exactly, John...what we have right now is this...

Both Atlas and Polar have only had one CBA that was each negotiated from scratch...then the merger. And the current CBA, even though it is NOT a made-from-scratch document, made significant gains over both the existing Atlas and Polar CBAs.

So, yes we have a long way to go to be in a so-called "mature" CBA, the likes of the Legacy carriers, or even FDX, UPS, and ABX. But with solidarity from the crews, we'll get there next time.

Remember, every decision you make the moment you leave home counts (actually, even before you leave home since they even try to violate the CBA with your Gateway/Alternate Travel arrangements!!

JonnyKnoxville

The company has been around over 20 years. In my opinion, there are no valid excuses as to why we are so far behind in many areas of our contract. Many of us are ready to swing for the fences during this next contract negotiation in order to make up a lot of ground and get us to parity with American, Delta, FedEx, United, and UPS. Time will tell if we can achieve what we are setting out to accomplish, but either way, you can be certain that these gains will only be possible after a long fight.

ATCsaidDoWhat

Not sure what pay rates you're looking at, but you can have American's. And don't be surprised when you see the others ratchet down in the next couple of years.

As to valid excuses...not sure how long you've been around, but I suspect not long enough to know the history. Or the fact that in terms of contracts, as was said above, this is a second contract as opposed to the ones you reference that have been in place and modified many times over decades.

If you want change and improvement, start by unifying the pilot group around a single goal...instead of everyone having their own ideas on how to do things. Management loves that.

As to the complaint in another post about retirement? 401k will always be a risk. Again, IF the group could get behind a single concept, the way to go would be to join one of the well funded and very secure IBT pension plans that has a very solid track record. But that will never happen when everyone has their own solution and it's the only correct one.

Been there, seen that and have all the t-shirts in the closet.

captainv

Just to be clear - you want us new guys to provide the solidarity that you old guys seem to lack?

From what I've seen so far, not a problem. We're fired up. How come you didn't say "if WE want change and improvement"?

Snickers

Could you mind elaborating on this? I have never heard of a point system at Atlas. How many points gets you an interview? How many points does each recommendation get you? How are people even listing multiple recs? That box is only big enough for one person's name and job title.

Are there certain experiences or qualifications that have a higher emphasis on the point system? For example, would heavy time get you more points than being a regional pilot?

John Carr

It's all a mystery, with only a few people that know all.

But the word is that EVERYTHING from resume/PAQ submittal all the way to walking out the door of the building after interview is scored.

And on first the bold part, are you referencing the PAQ form, or something else? I was able to fit 4-5 names/titles in there.

Second bold part, they've hired regional/corp/135 pilots over those with heavy/mil time. Maybe the former scored higher points via rec and how the interview went whereas the heavy time may have scored higher on the front end, etc.

millscd63

Am I missing something here? The 12 year 747 pay rates for CA and FO at American are $241 and $164 vs. $203 and $142 at Atlas. One of the big problems here is that a lot of guys don't realize how far behind we have fallen since all the majors have negotiated new contracts.

John Carr

Good point. But collective bargaining/pattern bargaining ISN'T an instant process unfortunately. DAL has had they're PWA for what, almost 4 years now? UAL didn't catch up late in 2012. And the Atlas rates NOW aren't that far off from what UAL was on their concessionary ones.

FedEx and UPS didn't get their CBA's around 2005. UAL and DAL's big contracts were 2000 and 2001.

About the only good system out there was the USAir one where they had a "parity plus" style of compensation raise. Whenever anybody else got a raise, they're pay was raised to be similar. Although I can't remember all the details. If it was a peer average plus, or an adjusted amount plus, what have you. However, the pitfall for somebody like Atlas would be what's considered a "peer".