Atlas Air Hiring
08-24-2013, 01:34 PM
#6601
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 264
If you are assigned a 13 hour flight thereby REQUIRING 4 crew, ALL 13 hours counts towards any flight time limitations. Many years of international ops and I have not seen it done any other way.
08-24-2013, 01:36 PM
#6602
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 610
Im sure this has been debated to death but every FO I have talked to logs the entire flight time as SIC regardless of crew complement. My previous employers also did not break down augmented flights for FAR tracking purposes like the above example. The regs seem to approve both methods. Anyways, its probably all irrelevant at the end of the day.
§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.
08-24-2013, 01:42 PM
#6603
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
Well, the way I see it is this: The FAA counts IRO time toward the 100-hour consolidation requirement, so it's implied that the entire flight can legally be logged. I'm trying to find a letter of interpretation, but I haven't heard of anyone getting in trouble for it.
08-24-2013, 02:16 PM
#6605
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B744 FO
Posts: 375
It can certainly all be logged, I just choose not to log flight time "acquired" while unconcious in the bunk. Just my "portion" based on no. of operating crewmembers.
08-24-2013, 02:17 PM
#6606
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
08-24-2013, 02:23 PM
#6607
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B744 FO
Posts: 375
Not complicated at all. And not a "legal interpretation", the regs don't dictate it. I just choose not to log the sleeptime in the bunk. I do note the total block time for the leg elsewhere in the log entry.
08-24-2013, 02:31 PM
#6608
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B744 FO
Posts: 375
In theory no one's supposed to be in the seat more than 8 hours. But I just did DWC - AUH - PVG. The DWC - AUH leg was 44 minutes block (a new personal record beating my 55 minutes MFM - HKG.) The company will figure we all flew 30 minutes that leg. Usually if I'm the third wheel for a short hop I'll try to give the other pilots an extra 15 minutes or 30 minutes rest the next leg.
08-24-2013, 04:47 PM
#6609
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: B767 CA
Posts: 1,100
Ferried an empty airplane DXB-SHJ...takeoff to touchdown in 6 minutes!! Took off Rwy 30R DXB and landed Rwy 12 SHJ...personal record...Captain gave me the leg, and immediately regretted it since ALL I had to do was fly the damn airplane. He was running checklists, typing in the FMC, talking on the radio, blah, blah, blah...
08-24-2013, 06:19 PM
#6610
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 747
Posts: 1,290
I, too, log the whole flight If I am operating crew.
Splitting hairs is a slippery slope for me. Actual time in the seat vs. scheduled? Time in the bunk? Time in the jump seat during TO/LDG? Time in the jumpseat doing OPS Calcs or aircraft logbook? Duty time but not in seat - in the lav or galley?
Too much for my tired brain.
Now, PIC time I do split. If I sign the flight plan, I log it as PIC. Obviously the Captain logs that same time as PIC, but there are other instances where two crew members can log PIC simultaneously (i.e. CFI with a licensed pilot doing training) and even though I'm not getting the big bucks, I'm typed and if my signature is on it, I'm logging it.
YMMV
8
Splitting hairs is a slippery slope for me. Actual time in the seat vs. scheduled? Time in the bunk? Time in the jump seat during TO/LDG? Time in the jumpseat doing OPS Calcs or aircraft logbook? Duty time but not in seat - in the lav or galley?
Too much for my tired brain.
Now, PIC time I do split. If I sign the flight plan, I log it as PIC. Obviously the Captain logs that same time as PIC, but there are other instances where two crew members can log PIC simultaneously (i.e. CFI with a licensed pilot doing training) and even though I'm not getting the big bucks, I'm typed and if my signature is on it, I'm logging it.
YMMV
8
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