Elevation

So you DO see a conflict of interest if they hold/are appointed to these positions. What I am saying is a conflict of interest DOES exists when they are in the application and screening pipeline. As many have laid out, the offices answer to different sets with different responsibilities. The actions and motivations of any officer change when they apply for a role. It's not like the effect of the new position on a person changes instantly. This is why none of us have sat at an interview and heard "Your company is stupid!" from successful candidates. People are already saying and doing what they expect us to like before they are awarded a slot. The same standards are applied outside of our industry as well.

So we agree on whether conflicts exist, but we disagree about when those conflicts become a factor. I'm saying the convicts are a factor as soon as an application is made and definitely by the time a position is offered.

What I am NOT saying is that we should close this pathway off. These are the people the company knows with experience with the company's affairs and rhe local group's corporate culture. I am just saying we have to acknowledge and manage the impacts. That can be as simple as reassignment or delegation of roles during the application process.

JohnBurke

No, I do not. I can't say it any more plainly or clearly than has been said. THERE IS NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

A UNION OFFICER CANNOT HOLD A UNION OFFICE, AND BE COMPANY MANAGEMENT AT THE SAME TIME.

THE ONLY WAY THAT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST COULD OCCUR WOULD BE IF THE UNION OFFICER HELD A MANAGEMENT POSITION AT THE SAME TIME. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE.

Thus, there is NO conflict of interest.

A "pipeline" is not a conflict of interest.

If a union believes a union officer is acting contrary to his duties, in his position, it is up to the union to remove that person from his or her union position. A union officer, however, CANNOT serve as management while serving the collective as a union officer.

I do not agree that there is a conflict of interest.

Elevation

So timing is the crux of the matter here. You see no conflict until the person holds the office; their responsibilities and authorities are adequately separated. I see a conflict when people start the application process or sometime shortly thereafter; their responsibilities are conflicted defacto due to their interest in pleasing their prospective superior. We've repreated ourselves sufficiently to outline our perspectives. I don't think we're going to convince each other, but at least we can articulate each other's point of view.

I bold-faced a sentence of yours because I think it drives at a key difference in assumptions we're making about the human factors here. Because you don't see a conflict until after people hold office, a conflict can only arise if there is some degree of malfeasance. So saying there's a conflict of interest is the same as saying someone has a character flaw. From my perspective it seems like we're asking our people to be super-human every time one of them makes the switch from union leadership to management. A "normal" person's decisions are affected by their future career progression, investments, etc. even before something untoward occurs if at all. I'm not tying this into a failure of someone's character.

Again, I'm not sure we're going to resolve our differences, but at least we can articulate them.

zerozero

Fine.

A college professor of mine would simply describe this entire exercise as "mental masturbation".

Are you satisfied yet? Because the rest of us are all done here.

Elevation

It's not mental masturbation. We built an understanding of each other's perspectives. That's the foundation of a working relationship. A lot of people aren't happy with the flow of union leadership to company management, and you're still trying to downplay valid concerns. If you're done here, stop.

Elevation

Actually, I'll stop too.

El Pilot

Hey all, hope everyone had a happy new year. I'm a current 121 purple feeder FO looking at Atlas and I had a couple questions.

1. Curious how the gateway travel works? My wife and I have an apartment in Medellin Colombia. From my understanding they can you fly you up to $1200 to your base
if you live outside the US. Is that how it works?

2. Are the days off chunked together like 16 on and 13 off? This would work well for QOL because I commute from SA.

3. How is the flying like? what would be a tyipcal layover like for hotel, food, and transportation that sort of stuff.

I would appreciate it if anyone can help me out and lets keep it positive in 2024. Have a good year.

astray

1. They will pay for up to $1250 one way from your gateway airport to your base, only if your address on file is outside the US. If it's above 1250, you'll pay for it yourself and then get it reimbursed.

2. Depends on fleet, there's more and more split lines coming out where it can be in 2 chunks of time, but the majority of lines on the 747/777 are still 17/14.

3. 1 leg a day, 20+ hour layover, usually pretty decent hotels especially international. Picked up by drivers to and from the hotel, and food options are usually good. Catered on board with okay-ish food.

Clue32

1. Just to add to the $1250 one way limit on international as I now use it commuting from Frankfurt to Portland. I found a round trip FRA - PDX - FRA that was around $1100 total. A one way FRA was about $1600. I asked for the round trip and the company purchased it straight away. I also found a one way in December just over $1000, three weeks before traveling home, asked for it and it was immediately purchased.

Lesson here is, look out for your best interest, let the company know how much they are saving off the cap, and travel easy.

2. I am making a big assumption here but if you are a lower time turbo-prop driver, you may get offered the 767 or 737. (Commuting to 747 or 777 MIA is your best Gateway). If offered the 767 or 737, don't panic as the seat lock is a short 2 years. But please know that these fleets have a lot of split lines, meaning 2 commutes per month. There are some single blocks, but right now they are definitely the minority.

3. Domestic Amazon on the 767 and 737 is one or maybe two legs per day. Lots of day time or evening trips. 1.5 to 6 block hours, 12 to 54 hour layovers (you read that right, I have three 54s in a 13 day period this month). Hilton or Marriott properties, mostly. Lots of downtown locations. Hilton let's you keep the HHonors points. Very easy life.

CFItilIdie

Is there a chance the MEM base will ever return? I'm a CFI in Memphis and was banking on hopefully flying for Atlas within the next five years on the 747.