stevecv

Any clue for the 76? just curious.

prettyflyssi

I didn't end up writing that one down, but somewhere to the tune of 250-300k for a 3-4 YOS FO sounds right. Again, that is absolute maximum possible income and not what I would realistically expect to make. I'm kinda pulling that figure out of thin air though so I apologize.

They presented the average monthly credit for the 767 as 82.2 hours if that is of any help. I'm sure someone else can chime in to confirm whether or not that is realistic as well.

HPIC

For a 3 year FO to make $450k it would require them working every single day of the year. 365 days straight. That would also require that open time trips be available at that seniority level that would fill in every single day of the year.

At year 3 pay rates(and I even assumed the year 3 pay rates that would be in effect 3 years from now at DOS+3) it would require about 2559 hours of pay to make $450k. That’s 213.25 hours a month. 17 work days is worth 82.28 hours of pay if the trip starts at 0000Z on day 1 and ends at 2359Z on day 17. More realistic for a 17 day trip is about 75-77 hours of pay. Months with training will most likely be 64 hours for 17 days. Open time pays 4.84 hours a day CRT plus 2 hours the first day, 4 hours the second, and 6 hours day 3 and on in a month.

Typical HR BS. It’s not just abnormal it’s impossible.

HPIC

82.2 hours is definitely NOT average for a 767 FO. Looking at the latest bid package, most 76FO hard lines are in the 64-72 hour range with a few outliers on both ends and reserve lines are in the 74-78 hour range.

82.2 hours would be a trip that starts at 0000Z on day 1 and ends at 2359Z on day 17. We don’t have trips like that.

RyeMex

For what it’s worth.. in 2022 I’ll be between a 6-7 year captain on the 767. I’m hoping to make $200k.

prettyflyssi

As some would say: oof

Thanks for clearing that all up.

dera

They include per diem and other perks to that number, let's play with it a bit.

Year 3 747 FO flying in/out of china makes 297/hr. Outbase guarantee is 21k, 90 hours of flying in/out of China, HKG and so on will pay what, 11500 over guarantee? Add 2000 of per diem, and you are getting 35k that month as a year 3 FO. Thats 420k/year. For working 365 days, and assuming COVID pay continues. And you have no friends, or a very expensive ex-wife, likely a few of them.

400k is not "impossible" but it is highly unrealistic.

HPIC

Nobody flies only Art 33 flights. A few legs here and there…not every single one and certainly not 90 hours worth.

You’re basing this on working every day of the month and that China/HKG will remain Art 33. That is not contractual. The company can cancel those at any time with 48 hours notice and 175% pay is gone for those countries(unless CDC level 4 or declared a hostile area).

This scenario assumes you never take vacation and you don’t have to go to training for an entire year. It also puts you over the legal limit of flight time of 1,000 hours in 12 calendar months.

Per diem should never be considered as part of pay.

You’re stacking everything for you and still not getting to the mythical $450k. As I stated originally….impossible.

dera

I'm doing around 50 hours of article 33 this month. ANC-China-ICN, ICN-China-ANC. That's almost 30 hours already. 3 of those trips would get you to 90 hours. Which is not outside the realm of possibilities if you outbase in ICN. I'm on my second one of those this month.

But I agree, I don't know how to get to 450k, I was just playing with the numbers to see what it would require. And as I said as a conclusion, 400k is not "impossible" but it's unrealistic. 420k would be the absolute best case scenario and really pretty much impossible to achieve in real world. So just to be clear, I wasn't defending the company claims, I was just seeing how far you could go.

C17B74

Regarding JFK without discussing seniority, it’s not what it used to be where most trips were DH work Day 1, rarely operating from JFK. That has disappeared significantly in comparison/contrast to many moons ago. It was a good deal not losing any time off. Just flew with a long time friend here based out of JFK and he mentioned it hasn’t gone back to the start with DH being the majority of lines. It’s from the standpoint of us being quite senior FO’s hunting for opportunities. Things change, seasons change, contracts change so it could flip, its ACMI after all.

*Of course he may not want me to bid to JFK so I will take another look tomorrow night. I trust him, but just how little DH from the start is offered out of curiosity? - and anyone can update what they see as well. Never looked at the Capt bids.